EPISODE #52 - HIGHLIGHTS FROM 1 YEAR OF REPLANT BOOTCAMP
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The Birthday Episode is here! 52 Episodes under the belt! Jimbo and Bob are still friends and we still have a few listeners. This episode has us celebrating some of the highlights of the past year.
Jimbo enjoyed a major break down in the “flow” of conversation in EP# 49 Situational Leadership when Bob Bickford didn’t Bob Bumgarner when he said; “Sit Lead” rather quickly.
One of our favorite guests was former SBC President, Dr. Fred Luter, he explained how he grew the church by reaching men with a PPV Fight night in the parsonage and kicked out Robert from Robert’s Rules of Order. EP #9 The Luter Replant Legacy Pt. 1
A sleeper episode and the Longest Edit award goes to EP#16 Rebranding and Replanting when Rodney Richardson dropped in to talk branding and the purpose of design and ministry. Bob gave Rodney a hard time about designing the Ole’ Miss Landshark.
Shout out to Dr. James Hawkins who did a couple of Episodes on Emotional Health and Leading Well during times of Racial Tension.
Thanks to Corey Davis for sticking with us and grabbing internet from the driveway of one of his Deacon’s homes. EP#52
One of the most helpful podcasts we remember was with Keelan Cook who stopped by to talk about the Four Fold Panorama and it’s application for Replanting, check it out in EP#23
We loved talking to Min Lee in EP#26, the Replanter of the Year-he has a great story!
And you, our listeners, we are thankful for you!! Be sure to leave a review, drop us a line and let us know how the Bootcamp has been helpful to you!
Where would we be without our sponsor, One Eighty Digital thanks for being part of this adventure with us! If you need a website-give them a shout.
EPISODE #51 - CHRIST-CENTERED CONFLICT RESOLUTION WITH TONY MERIDA
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The Conflict Episode: we’re joined by Tony Merida who stopped by the ‘Ole Bootcamp’ to break down some important concepts from his most helpful book: Christ Centered Conflict Resolution
Understanding the conflict through the lens of the “Grand Narrative” is important.
God calls us to be peacemakers – this seems to be absent in our culture.
There are times where a mediator is needed to help others work through conflicts, this is an important and not to be neglected role.
There are 5-M’s in working toward resolving conflict
Me First: is there a log in my eye?
Minor: is this an offense I can overlook?
Major: is this a major offense?
Material: does there need to be a restitution of some kind? Materially?
Mediation: do we need help working through this conflict?
We’re super thankful for our podcast partner One Eighty Digital, check them out for your website needs! And let them know that you are a bootcamp listener!
Show Notes: want to read along while the show plays? Check out this episode’s show notes below delivered by: Descript
TRANSCRIPTS are an approximate account of the audio recording and may not be 100% complete. Audio should be consulted for accuracy.
JimBo Stewart: [00:00:32] here we go. Episode 51 of the Replant Bootcamp. I was looking at it Bob. That means it was actually a right around a year ago that we launched episode zero of the Replant Bootcamp, a resource for replanters, just mainly us chatting and talking and learning about our mistakes and sharing our mistakes so that others can not touch the hot stove like us.
Bob Bickford: [00:00:57] Right. Don’t do what we did.
JimBo Stewart: [00:01:00] Yeah, that’s the whole premise of this whole thing is learn from the mistakes we make along the way.
Bob Bickford: [00:01:05] You know it’s been really good, 50 plus episodes now. And one of the awesome things last week when we were in Kansas city, we got to meet a couple of listeners, the local listeners, and, our good friend, Johnny Upchurch was there who gave us a question. And one thing he said was really awesome. Just a lot of the young guys that are replanting or about to explore replanting have been listening to the podcast over, some months that we’ve been doing this and they themselves have said it’s been really helpful and a lot of fun and they’ve laughed along the way. And they’ve learned along the way. So I think we’ve met that objective in just really thankful for all our listeners and everybody participating.
JimBo Stewart: [00:01:42] Hey, today, I’m excited. We get to go in the way back machine, back to, near the very beginning of my ministry. not the very first pastor I served but, a church I served at in Southeast Mississippi, Dr. Tony Merida kind of came in as I was on my way out. And there was a good several months there almost a year where I got to serve under him. And then when we moved to New Orleans, he and his wife, Kimberly were the only people we knew. In the city of New Orleans.
And we would go and bother them at their house on campus, every once in a while, just cause we didn’t know anybody else, but, Tony, he is the pastor of Imago Dei did I pronounce that the way you guys pronounce that?
Tony Merida: [00:02:24] Yeah, that’s correct. JimBo.
JimBo Stewart: [00:02:25] Okay. Cause I know different people say different ways that ye or I didn’t know how hipsterish you got with it.
But, and then you’re the Dean of Gimke Seminary, and the director of theological training for acts 29, five kids, all adopted. And, most importantly, the most important thing on your resume is the several months that you’ve got to, lead me in Southeast Mississippi.
Tony Merida: [00:02:49] yeah, it’s that. And the fact that I set the record for walks at my college, 71 walks in four years.
Bob Bickford: [00:02:55] So where, what college was that?
Tony Merida: [00:02:58] It’s called University of the Cumberlands in Kentucky. It’s an NAIA school. Someone passed my record up, but I got hit by the pitch. At least half of those walks I crowded and took a lot in the shoulder. Yeah, it was good for any or pastoral ministry.
Bob Bickford: [00:03:12] You crowd the plate a lot. Just get up there real close. Make the pitcher mad?
Tony Merida: [00:03:15] Yeah. Greg Biggio style. Yeah.
Bob Bickford: [00:03:17] Okay.
JimBo Stewart: [00:03:18] I think replanters can, empathize with that, in pastoral ministry in general, you’re going to take it, taking those hits a lot. so let me ask you Tony, on the spot here from your time in South Mississippi, what’s maybe one or two of your favorite memories from that season of ministry?
Tony Merida: [00:03:35] It’s always the people, man, everywhere you go for me. it’s about people and, there’s some of the greatest people I’ve ever met. live in South Mississippi. in fact, we brought seven of them here to plant Imago Dei and, and others have trickled up through the years as well, who are connected to those individuals.
So we, we had a great time, the food in New Orleans, South Mississippi. I really miss, But I lost a lot of weight when I moved. So there was positive to that. it was a great experience. People were very gracious to me. I was a young pastor, trying to lead a big church and, there was a big staff and they were already in place and I was the new guy.
And learned a lot, and really grateful for my time there.
JimBo Stewart: [00:04:15] So I worked at the East Campus with youth and college and you led them through a healthy and amicable, relaunching/replanting of that. And it’s now Hardy Street Baptist Church.
Tony Merida: [00:04:29] Yeah. I think that was the right move. I think that was a healthy move. I felt like that’s what people wanted as well. So I’ve never done anything like that since. So that was a, it was a learning experience for sure.
JimBo Stewart: [00:04:40] Yeah, I can resonate on the food thing. One of the most suffering moments of my entire ministry career was when I moved to Jacksonville, Florida. And one of the first articles I read about Jacksonville, Florida was listing the 50 largest cities in America ranked one to 50 on food and to no surprise, New Orleans got number one out of the 50 largest cities in America and Jacksonville got number 50. And I, I immediately questioned my calling the city of Jacksonville and have desperately missed New Orleans /Southeast Mississippi Gulf coast cuisine. And go back as often as I can.
Tony Merida: [00:05:18] It’s about sacrifices, isn’t it? The Lord has never allowed me to be in a city where there’s a major league baseball team. I think that’s his kindness, to keep me from idolatry.
JimBo Stewart: [00:05:29] Yeah. Yeah. You would probably spend a lot of time there if you did well, good. Tony, we’re glad to have you, you cranked out a book from what I can tell in the introduction pretty quickly. cause you talk about COVID in the introduction and I definitely think it’s a needed topic to be discussed right now, Christ-Centered Conflict Resolution. Tell us just a little bit real quick, how this book came about.
Tony Merida: [00:05:53] Yeah, you’re right. I wrote it in about three weeks. I was writing another book on the church, which I’ve now finished, for The Good Book company. And Lifeway B&H said, Hey, this is a time in which closer proximity, family. staying at home has created lot of conflict. It’s probably been good for some relationships, but it’s also been a negative and it’s created a lot of conflict and for others, we don’t want a big book, we want something that’s readable. We want a pastor to write it. So, imagine a couple comes into your office and their kids are driving them bananas or the spouse is driving them, whatever, you’ve got family conflict, you’ve got neighbor conflict, walk us through some of the key passages and apply them to those situations.
Just like you would as a pastor. So the book is. the way I think about it as if I were a pastor, I would have a stack of them on hand, not because it’s my book, but I’m just telling you how I’m working through it. and if I’ve got somebody in conflict, this is not the end all what I’ve written, but it would be a great little resource.
It’s something that they could read. They could have an understanding of some of the key passages. And I’m really pressing the Christ-Centered part. So it’s about conflict, but it’s really about our hearts, our affection. And when we are adoring him, we want to follow him. We submit it to his leadership.
We submit to what his Word says about reconciliation and forgiveness and these kinds of things. As one writer says, conflict is not so much about skills as it is sin, and so dealing with the uncomfortable parts of conflict that I need to look at my own life first, before I pointed out the weaknesses in others.
It’s that kind of thing that I’m trying to tried to accomplish in this book. There’s a classic book called, The Peacemaker that has been used for years by Ken Sande. This is the Merida version of Ken Sande, much shorter. And I try to get really straight to some of the key points about this particular issue as our pastor for counseling said, when we were riding it, when you’re in a conflict, you don’t want a big book.
And you don’t want a lot of steps. and so I tried to, there are some steps, but I try to avoid, a very complicated mathematical approach to conflict and deal with some of the real key issues.
Bob Bickford: [00:08:05] When we are in conflict, really what’s taking place. what is the root of conflict that we need to understand?
Tony Merida: [00:08:13] So I think there are several, every case is different, obviously. sometimes you are the victim of abuse, whether that’s like serious abuse or you’re just not being treated properly/rightly. Oftentimes though, conflict, as James teaches us in James 4, when he says, he asked the question, why do we have quarrels and fights among us is because our passions are at war within us.
And the first chapter of the book is about how cravings in the words of David Palisson underlie conflicts. All right. and we know this just experientially. if I don’t get what I want, I will take it out on people. And these are not always, sinful cravings. They might be, but sometimes it’s just, an inordinate desire for a good thing that has been disturbed or disrupted, like you might desire comfort and rest. That’s a good thing. And when you don’t get it because of your kids’ behavior, it can really cause you to lash out improperly and in anger or whatever. The desire for food is a good thing. The desire for vacation, and then you get on that vacation and it’s sanctification through vacation.
Not, it’s not very restful at all. It’s people at war with each other because their passions are at war within them. And I think that’s one of the most difficult things for people to admit and do is to actually do self-examination before I point out the flaws in others . As Jesus talked about the log in our eye, before we look at the speck in someone else’s.
And it might very well be they are the primary reason for the conflict, but we should at least do the soul searching because at the end of the day, one of the things that, it’s a hard truth to embrace, but it’s an important one I think is that conflict is an opportunity for growth. And so doing that work of self examination, the only thing I have to lose is the sin that I see there and repent of.
And blessed riddance to that. And it might be very little, but you’re at least doing it. And in doing the work of reconciliation, or, having an awkward conversation with someone that you’re at odds with, that’s an opportunity for you to grow. That’s an opportunity for them to grow.
And so we don’t always have to see conflict as this crushing thing to be avoided. we certainly don’t delight in it. We’re not seeking conflicts, but. how we resolve them and the importance of resolving them is really vital for, or our spiritual growth. And I think most people have been Christians for a long time, can look back and see various conflicts that they’ve had that’s actually turned out to be something that’s positive. and, so we don’t always get the resolution that we’re looking for in conflict. that’s why Romans 12 is important where Paul says, as far as it depends on you, if possible, live at peace with everyone. You know there’s a little exception there of, it may not be possible, but as far as it depends on you, you seek to live peaceably with everyone.
JimBo Stewart: [00:11:06] Yeah, I appreciate how Paul gives, I quote that verse all the time to people whenever they’re dealing with conflict, because Paul gives you two outs there, if possible. And so far as it depends on you, you do your part. And then if it’s possible, then be a peace, but sometimes that’s not going to happen.
Our audience is all potential replanters guys considering replanting, dying churches, or guys who are replanting or revitalizing, struggling churches, and almost 100% of the time when you walk into a dying church, a struggling church, you’re walking already into tension and conflict. And I think right now in this season, we’re at not just the close proximity that COVID has given us with the racial tension, the political tension, the mask versus no mask. And, all the I, every pastor I talk to right now feels absolutely exhausted with the constant tension from about a thousand different angles. And so for just a brief moment, give us maybe pointing to the gospel where we have hope, and that Christ centered emphasis as a pastor, And even in the midst of, it seems like 5,000 angles of tension right now.
Tony Merida: [00:12:21] Yeah, you’re right. It’s a hard time to be a pastor, man. It’s a real hard time. You know what I’ve tried to say to our churches, a couple things, one on all these issues my aim is to simply be a biblical expositor. Okay.
So, when you hear something that might not be in alignment with your political biases? Know that I have zero political agenda. if I’m talking about loving neighbor or doing justice, I am not a Marxist. I’m not on a political side. Teaching the Bible. Okay. If I talk about personal responsibility.
If I, talk about being an entrepreneur and creating business and I’m not necessarily a Republican, I’m not on this other band. I’m my one aim as your pastor is to teach the Bible and to care for you. I also told them if I make statements or if I seem sympathetic to particular causes not causes, but individuals in our church who might align with certain causes.
I’m not necessarily in that cause. So don’t do this guilt by association. What I am trying to do is care for people who are hurting in my church. And even if you think they shouldn’t be hurting, the reality is they are hurting. And my job is not to first and foremost, go in and try to clarify all these things in their minds and here to be frank, I’m speaking about, a good number of our African American members who have been really bothered by, the events of this year and, we’ve reached out and try to serve and have meetings. And I’ve made some statements. That’s not to say that I’m in alignment with everything that is communicated on that news. What I have though, is a responsibility to shepherd our people where they’re at and to lead them into Christ-likeness.
It was the same would be true for someone. Who’s dealing with some other issue and they’re hurting because of an experience. And I just want to apply the gospel to their hurt. That’s all I want to do. So I think it’s been important to kind of state what you can expect from me and what my motives are.
And at the end of the day, I just keep coming back to the Bible. So I want to use Bible language and not language used in the media. I want to stay thoroughly biblical in vocabulary so that hopefully people will realize that’s all I want to do. Now, in saying all of that, you’re going to get hit on both sides as a pastor . But that’s just part of it, man. This is what we signed up for. So, I also want to say there’s no room for self pity in this vocation that we have, we’re always going to be at some level, provoking people and stirring them up or not intentionally, but just like the Bible and God’s Spirit will do that.
I think one of the things, when it comes to conflict, racial conflict or a conflict in the home, putting everything in the grand narrative is really important. So have creation we’re in harmony with God and one another. We have the fall and Genesis 3, there was the promise of conflict between man and woman.
The very next chapter we see family conflict as one brother kills the next. So an obvious consequence of sin is conflict, but also right in the middle of that conflict passage in Genesis 3 is the promise of the Redeemer. That’s going to crush the head of the serpent. And, we’re promised that Redeemer we’re anticipating in through the old Testament, he arrives in the incarnation.
Paul makes that great statement in Romans 16, that the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. I think picking up on the Genesis 3 language. So while we cause of Christ and his coming, we have reconciliation to God and one another. And we have the hope of one day having no more conflict. And that’s what we see at the end of the Bible as conflict is gone.
There’s no more, evil. We don’t have to lock our doors. We’re not at each other’s throats. It’s peace. It’s total Shalom. That’s where all history is headed and that’s a beautiful thing. So I keep telling our congregation, look. the new creation, total Shalom, our blessed hope is not returning to normal.
it’s the eschaton, right? Our blessed hope is not in who wins the election. It’s Jesus Christ coming and making all things new. I just think as you put things in the grand narrative, hopefully for some people, all these other things will be put in their proper perspective. And because if you look at all of history, COVID is going to be a little blip on the historical map.
And so many of the things that we disagree about, like a mask is going to seem so trivial and so silly in light of eternal glory. So I think part of our job is to be biblical to teach the Bible, and to try to put all of these things within their proper narrative. And that’s it. Great advantage we have as Christian pastors who belive the Bible, right?
We have this narrative and it’s a great time to be applying it.
Bob Bickford: [00:17:10] Tony. One of the key points you made is the right proclamation of God’s word helps frame the theological understanding for the body of how we’re going to do conflict, what God has to say about it, how it fits into the grand scheme and the grand narrative. There are sometimes though that the preaching part of it doesn’t address conflict that happens between individuals, right?
So they have to go face to face. They have to get personal with one another. What are some of the things that you’ve put in the book that help people understand when it comes down to me, actually having a conversation with somebody one on one. And dealing with conflict. What do you provide for, us in terms of helpful, teaching and information?
Tony Merida: [00:17:48] Yeah, it’s a great question. so I think, one, I’m trying to highlight the significance of being a peacemaker. It’s a, it’s extremely strange in these days to be one. And by the way, I should mention that we wrote the book before all the racial tensions and not thinking about a political election.
So it just brought up more relevance as the months went on. man is a good book. We need this book. So I’m looking at, Jesus saying, blessed are the peacemakers for, they shall be the sons of God. Like he says, one of the ways, primary ways we reflect his character is by being a peacemaker. And that is significant, but I, growing up, I just didn’t hear a lot of sermons on peacemaking on the importance of being a peacemaker.
It of course reflects the work of Jesus on the cross. It reflects what he came to do to unite Jew and Gentile, right? So this is a big deal. So part of the book is just me saying, Hey, doing the work of peacemaking is really important to seek peace, in pursue it as the scripture teaches us.
Secondly, in James 3, several commentators point out that James, in that section on being a peacemaker, he calls it wisdom from above versus wisdom from below. He gives the qualities of a peacemaker. And they had pointed out that he’s basically taking his half brother Jesus’s, beattitude and teasing it out because Jesus doesn’t really tease it out with the exception of saying certain things about forgiveness, leaving your gift at the altar of going to reconcile. So in that sense he does, but what does it mean to be a peacemaker? So I devote a chapter to that on traits like gentleness being open to reason. the things that James lists, that it, it produces a harvest of righteousness.
And then at the end of the book, I look at Euodia and Syntyche in Philippians, which is also an encouraging thing, especially for our guys in replanting in situations where you’ve got a lot of conflict, perhaps. Even in a church that Paul loved that he called his joy and crown. And he said that about the church in Philippians 4:1. In the very next few verses, he talks about conflict in this church, which was his joy and crown between these two ladies Euodia and Syntyche.
And he urges this. Unnamed person to be a mediator between them so that they would agree in the Lord. And he says basically that they should be able to be united because their names are in the book of life. They actually belong to the kingdom. So they should be together. So I take that and then I worked through a little, five M’s of a peacemaker.
That, hopefully it’ll be helpful for people. The first M is me first. So whenever I’m in a conflict, I need to examine my own life. By the way, I would use this if I were mediating a conflict. Okay. Second. is minor, should this offense be overlooked? and that’s a really important one because sometimes we just shouldn’t be in conflict.
Okay. Like for me on the mask situation, I’m going overlook this. Like some of these things are weaker brothers, stronger, brother, Christian Liberty. People just need to be taught some of this stuff. It’s preference, it’s preferences. It’s not sin issues. minor.
JimBo Stewart: [00:20:45] The very first conflict mediation I had to do when I started at this church was actually, between two ladies arguing over how to water the peace lilies in our sanctuary. And so there was, so many peace lilies in our sanctuary because every funeral. They would do a, give a big peace lily to the family.
And they would say, if you don’t want to take this home, then you can leave it donate to the church. everybody donate it to the church. And so it was just a jungle of peace lilies all over the sanctuary stage. And. The sanctuary itself. And so they actually scheduled a conflict mediation meeting and it might be the most heated conflict I’ve had to mediate, was the war over the peace lilies.
And so I, I appreciate that question of, is it a minor offense or a major offense?
Tony Merida: [00:21:38] I wish I’d have known that story JimBo, that would’ve went in the book that is the illustration. yeah, yeah, many things need to be overlooked. And again, you’re thinking about this in terms of family as well. like this is hard, but we got to teach it to our kids. They’re often at each other’s throats over minor things, a major does this offense require a process of restoration.
So usually these major conflicts are going to take some time. material is the fourth M. Does this require restitution of property or rights or whatever. So your neighbor’s tree falls on your fence. You need more than an apology. Like he, he should pay for it. You think, this is Zaccheus as he becomes a follower of Jesus and he said, I want to pay back fourfold, all that that I owe. I’m not just going to say I’m sorry guys, but I’m actually going to try to make things right materially.
And then the fifth M is mediation. And I think this was maybe most helpful to the question itself is, do I need someone to help, mediate this conflict could be a pastor it could be a friend. I’m thinking in terms of church, family, I’m not primarily thinking civil, issues out there, in the courts. but do I need to helper? and I think. the two dangers that we’ve thought about with conflict on the ways you don’t want to go, are avoiding conflict or attacking in conflict.
And my experience in the South, and this is just a generalization, there are exceptions to this, has been the passive aggressive, when you don’t deal with it and then there’s a lot of other stuff that goes on that’s not good. And my experience in the North has been more attack you just raise your voice louder whenever there’s a conflict and we really want to deal with it. We want to work through it, and that can be very uncomfortable, but I would say to anybody in a replant/revitalization effort, established church, you’ve got to learn to have awkward conversations with people. You don’t want these conversation. I don’t want them, but I’ve just found that the Lord shows up, man, in some of these meetings that you dread going into.
And I think that’s because he honors this work. Like he cares about, our relational harmony, And the goal is not just to have the absence of strife, but to have the presence of harmony and be united together. And those are some of the things that people could pick up on in the book.
JimBo Stewart: [00:23:58] Tony, I appreciate you taking the time to meet with us, man. I defintely think this is going to be a good resource. It is a quick, easy read. And it’s not super expensive on Amazon. You can grab this and read this and it, it can be a good resource as Tony said to hand out to people who are dealing with conflict, as a way to teach you just some basics of conflict mediation, and just a real quick look at it .
Appreciate you,Tony.
Tony Merida: [00:24:22] Appreciate you guys. Appreciate this podcast, man.
50 Episodes!! Thanks for being part of our listening family!!
In this episode the guys talk about becoming lifelong learners, not being defined by your mistakes and how to grow in your leadership in light of the fact that you are not perfect.
Quick Takeaways
Mistakes are part of ministry-don’t excuse them, be defeated by them, learn from them.
Mistakes create pain-for you, your people and the mission of the Church.
Evaluate your mistakes-before you move past them or ignore them understand what led to them, what happened and what you might do differently in the future.
If you aren’t making mistakes you are probably not leading.
Failure is not final
Show Notes: want to read along while the show plays? Check out this episode’s show notes below delivered by: Descript
TRANSCRIPTS are an approximate account of the audio recording and may not be 100% complete. Audio should be consulted for accuracy.
JimBo Stewart: Episode 5- 0 50 episodes. Bob that is pretty special.
Bob Bickford: It is, JimBo I am just a little north of 50. 50 is a big deal.
JimBo Stewart: 50 is a big deal. How North of 50, are you?
Bob Bickford: Three strikes? JimBo. Three strikes three strikes.
We’ve laughed a lot. And I think this has been for me. So it’s been a highlight of my week, every week for us to, broadcast and episode number 50 is really great because we’re actually in person. Yep. Recording [00:01:00] this during the Replant Summit, 2020 here in Greenwood, Missouri. And, it’s been an awesome time.
JimBo Stewart: This has been a really good event.
Honestly, as good as you could do in COVID. We’re social distancing mask on trying to figure that out and Fellowship Church has done a great job of accommodating all of that accommodating us leading well, and all of that. And hosting it and it’s just been a really cool to be a part of it.
Bob Bickford: Can’t say enough and thankful to Steve Dighton for the legacy of Lenexa Baptist Church and the Fellowship Churches. So Fellowship Greenwood is a church that they took over years ago . Interestingly enough, we’re here in the Kansas city, Metro, where I was a youth pastor for four years. And our youth group softball team actually played softball in the front yard, that big front lawn of Fellowship Greenwood. And you know what? Here’s a true story. Alright. We had a youth group where we had a one softball player that played at Truman High School. Go Patriots.
And she was awesome at inviting her friends to come to our youth group. And so a number of them came to Christ. It was awesome. And they also came and played on our softball team and they were so good. They were so good that we killed every other youth group softball team in the, blue river, Kansas city Baptist Assocuation Softball League. And here was our motto. I’ll lay it on you. All right.
We don’t practice because we don’t have to.
JimBo Stewart: That’s an interesting evangelistic strategy. Let’s just go after elite athletes and dominate church league softball.
Bob Bickford: Hey, it wasn’t. I was not, it was not a strategy. It was just, the strategy was reached your friends for Christ. And I just had a softball player, Jennifer Palmer, and she was awesome. She just started reaching her friends. And so we had like almost the complete infield of the Truman Patriot softball team.
And it was amazing.
JimBo Stewart: Did y’all make anybody cry? Cause you beat them so bad.
Bob Bickford: I think we probably did.
JimBo Stewart: For me, church league softball has always been an example of [00:03:00] probably something we should not do.
Bob Bickford: Yes.
JimBo Stewart: It’s continually like a practice in not showing the fruit of the spirit.
Bob Bickford: You’re going to damage your witness in the community. Playing church softball.
JimBo Stewart: You’ll see people get tested.
Your metal gets tested. as a spiritual person playing church league softball.
Bob Bickford: Whew. I was really bad at baseball and not so great at softball. My wife is really, she’s really good at softball. And so I always had this love, hate relationship. Unfortunately for that year I had an intern.
And he was the one who ran all of the softball stuff. And so I just got to show up with my kids. They were really little. And I just got to cheer and have a lot of fun. It was a great time.
JimBo Stewart: Hey, I got to share a great story that I have a connection to Fellowship Church.
Bob Bickford:
Let’s do it. Yeah.
JimBo Stewart: I shared this at the Replant Summit, that there’s a young lady who lives in Jacksonville, Florida. She came to the Kansas City area to visit some family and friends. And while with those family and friends who she’s known for a very long time. Did not grow up in church. she didn’t put her family and friends did, some of them did. And anyway, long story short, they, the father of her friend.
Leads her to Christ. She stuck here cause of COVID for several weeks and he starts discipling her with his daughter and they start going through discipleship process. And they’re figuring out what she’s got to go back to Jacksonville now. The guy talks to me and he goes, I’ll be honest, man. I’m a little bit of a control freak. And I was so excited to get to lead somebody to Christ and start discipling them. And now I’m having to send them back.
I don’t know where I’m sending them. I don’t know the connection. And so he asked Greg Boll. Yeah. DOM around here, where should I send them? And Greg and I met at the AMS training in Alpharetta before. And so Greg said, Hey Jacksonville, I know a guy in Jacksonville, JimBo Stewart Redemption Church. just by God’s sovereignty. So cool. Jacksonville is physically the largest city in America, land mass wise. So being in [00:05:00] Jacksonville does not mean that we’re close enough to be her church.
Bob Bickford: Sure.
JimBo Stewart: But she happens to live like a mile and a half up the road from our church and shows up on a Sunday that I’m not even preaching I’m on vacation our replant resident as preaching. And then I meet her the next week. The guy who’s discipling her emails, me, we touched base and she’s been with us ever since and been really plugged in with our young adults.
And it’s been really a cool addition to our church. And so it’s been neat to see from one replant to another replant all the way halfway across the country.
Bob Bickford: That’s phenomenal. And I just love stories like that. And the more that I’m in the replant movement. And the more that we do training with guys from all over the nation. We’ve got guys here from Michigan and California.
All over the place. And, It’s just great because you develop those relationships and you hear those connections. And so beyond this podcast and the work of the Replant Team in the North American Mission Board, there’s a lot of connections that are being made. And so as big as North America is it’s actually getting smaller yeah. In this replant movement. So a lot of the guys that are listening to podcasts, we were able to meet some guys, today. Yeah.
At that hadn’t been listening to the podcast and we just want to say thank you to our listeners. And we’re grateful for you. And thanks for sticking with us for 50 episodes. It’s really.
JimBo Stewart: Listen to the other 50, you need to. Hey, and if you do meet us at a conference,or something like that, we honestly we’d love for you to come and just tell us that you listen and, let us know if it’s helpful or not helpful o what we could do.
Bob Bickford: Yeah.
JimBo Stewart: to be more helpful.
Bob Bickford: Yeah. So one of the things we want to talk about in episode 50 is mistakes and how to learn from them and not make them, which it’s appropriate that we’re here in the Kansas City Metro. Cause I sure made a lot of mistakes as a youth pastor.
JimBo Stewart: It’s also appropriate the its like an earmark episode five zero, cause that’s kinda the theme of a lot of what we talked about. It’s not learning from our expertise. But from our mistakes.
Bob Bickford: Oh man. And so this is a hard thing, and I don’t know about You JimBo, but one of the things that, I’m just wired up, I’m wanting to achieve and I want to win. And I want to have knowledge and I don’t want to not know something.
And so that feeds into the leadership that I exercise is a pastor. I hate it. When I miss something and I make a mistake and then I just have to sit in that and go, yeah. How did I not know this? I should have known better. Why didn’t I think about that? And it’s a really painful experience for me to make a mistake.
JimBo Stewart: Yeah, I’m somewhere that way. I’m not, I want to be a high achiever. I want to get things done. We’re both wired very passionate. Driven. Let’s just get it done. Push through it and make it happen. Let’s win. And it’s so hard. Not only when you make a mistake in ministry, but when that mistake is not only painful for you, but it ends up being painful for others. You’re now dealing with pain and hurt. Because I did that.
Bob Bickford: So as a pastor, that’s so hard for us because when we make a mistake as a pastor and leading the church, it hurts our people, it hurts us. It hurts our family. It can potentially hurt the mission and the work of God in our church and our community and our city. And we’re not just talking about like a moral failure or something like that, but they’re simple leadership mistakes that we make that have an impact and we may not realize them. So one of them may be in the way we talk to somebody or something that we say publicly that is taken the wrong way. Or we didn’t mean for it to sound a particular way, but maybe we were tired and it did sound a particular way. And, or maybe we did, maybe we were just frustrated and spoke out of anger. I’ve had a couple of instances where I’ve been too honest about what I was feeling, not practicing emotional intelligence and self-awareness, it just was like, a little bit angry and I’m just going to say this as anger. Yeah. Just cause I’m mad. Yeah. And when I do that, you can, soon as it comes out of your mouth, you see the. See the air go out of the room and the eyes get a little wider. Do you like, I think I just made a mistake.
JimBo Stewart: I’ve got a great one for you ever say something when you think.
It happens a lot in parenting, right? When you say something, you go. I never thought I’d say that sentence.
I’ve got a ministry one. There was mistake where I was just emotionally exhausted and let something slip that never should have happened. Just hectic insane week for our church. lots of weighty ministry, things happening all on top of each other. So literally we’re working with a lady whose children or she’s being investigated by DCF and we’ve got a emergency care family that is taken care of those kids.
While we’re trying to figure out how to get this lady in rehab. While not losing her children. I’m literally in meetings with DCF, trying to advocate on her behalf because I know this lady and I know the kids and I know that they don’t need to be separated. She just needs some help for a little while. And we, as a church can rally around the kids while that’s happening.
On top of that, several other weightiness things happening. The lady who was supposed to be cooking Wednesday night dinner had to pull out, which meant I was cooking Wednesday night. Oh my gosh. Which normally is something I enjoy. I enjoy cooking and it’s normally a de-stressor, but with just 5,000 other things happening, I just didn’t need anything else on my plate. And one of the ladies had with the DCF situation there was an Iguan a that needed to be taken care of.
Bob Bickford: Okay. wait. A real. actual iIIIIIIIIIIguana That was a pet.
JimBo Stewart: That was a pet. Okay. And the kids where they, where the kids went, that family did not want to take care of also an iguana. And so another lady just volunteered to take the Iguana. Okay. And she realized she didn’t want to take care. I don’t realize, I don’t know. Maybe a gwan is our high maintenance and I’m not really sure
Bob Bickford: whether they are a pretty big lizard
JimBo Stewart: and yeah. So this lady is constantly like.
Hey, somebody has got to take care of this iguanas, but she wasn’t directly asking me, is she, this was informing me that there was a situation and. I have a fault that I’m going to go ahead and just be transparent.
Bob Bickford: I can’t wait.
JimBo Stewart: If you’re passive aggressive with me. It drives me so insane. Yes. I will not help you. Yes, it, unless the Holy spirit intercedes and you bring a passive aggressive.
Not request, but like it’s supposed to be a request, but you don’t want to actually make it a request. There’s just something in me.
Bob Bickford: The hint drop. I hate the hint.
JimBo Stewart: I just, I, so I will sometimes sinfully unintentionally just not answer your request because you haven’t actually made a request. Okay. So this lady kept passive, aggressively texting me are things like about this Iguana, not asking. Can you help me find somewhere for the Igurana, but just, Hey.
And This is horrible. I would just reply, praying for you.
Bob Bickford: Oh, God.
JimBo Stewart: And I would pray and I would go, Lord, please take care of this Igurana. So I am walking into the church kitchen. With arm loads full of groceries?
Bob Bickford: No,
JimBo Stewart: my phone rings and it’s this lady’s husband.
Bob Bickford: Oh no.
JimBo Stewart: Now the backstory for this conversation is he travels for a living. And so his wife has probably, I’m assuming at this point, been in his ear about this iguana and me not helping.
And so he’s a little heated and I would be too right. If my wife said, man, I’ve been asking the pastor to help me figure out something with iguana this whole time. He’s just leaving me with it and just get your replying, praying for you. Like I would probably be like, Hey man. Why don’t you help out?
Bob Bickford: Yeah. So just to a clarification, you’re helping this family. You got a family services involved, you gotta take [00:13:00] care of an iguana and just to reiterate, did you just, did you pawned this go on and off on the lady?
JimBo Stewart: I had nothing to do with the iguana interchange. Okay. All right. It just happened. Okay. This lady volunteered for it and then realized it was more than she could handle.
Bob Bickford: Okay.
JimBo Stewart: And she just kept saying, I can’t do this. Somebody else needs to do it.
Bob Bickford: So as her pastor. And so she was just reaching out. I need a little help here,
JimBo Stewart: Look. I had too many other irons in the fire, too many other things.
Bob Bickford: Were are you making chicken strips or pot roast for dinner? What were you making? Or what? I was cooking that night.
JimBo Stewart: but I remember I’ve got arm
Bob Bickford: fulls of groceries
JimBo Stewart: and I walk into the kitchen and my phone’s ringing and it’s her husband.
Bob Bickford: Oh, no.
And
JimBo Stewart: so I drop groceries to answer the phone and he’s heated and he’s at me. Man, listen my wife has been trying to help you with this iguana thing, blah, blah, blah, blah. You’ve got to figure out somebody else to take care of this iguana. I said. Bro. I don’t have a spare minute to help you find a foster home for an iguana.
Bob Bickford: No, this is Florida. They got numbers. Come on.
JimBo Stewart: I don’t have a spare minute to help you with this iguana.
Bob Bickford: wait, can I ask, did you, do, did you ever learn how to prepare Guana? As a chef.
JimBo Stewart: I’ve never cooked any four of lizard.
Bob Bickford: Okay. Alright. It’s unclean slid a little bit. It gets, yeah. Commence.
JimBo Stewart: so he goes, like I said, it pretty upset.
I was like, bro, I don’t have a minute to help you find a foster home for an iguana. And I think when I set it like that, like it hit him. Cause, and again, I fully understand this position. If my wife were in my ear all day about something, you better believe I’m going to come to her
Bob Bickford: defense.
JimBo Stewart: And at the moment when I said that he goes. You’re right. My bad man.
Bob Bickford: And that’s good
JimBo Stewart: and hangs up. And so I called my wife and I was like, Hey, We need a vacation.
She goes, why do we need a vacation? I know we do, but what happened? She could just tell him my voice. Something happened to trigger that phone call. And I said, I just yelled at somebody. Or raise my voice, telling them I cannot help you foster an iguana. She knew all the backstory and she goes, you did what I thought she goes, you need to call him and apologize. And I said, I’m gonna be honest. I’m not ready. Yeah. Like I’m just not ready to call and apologize right now. So I gave it 30 minutes and then I called and I apologize. And he said, no, man.
I was the one out of line. I shouldn’t be asking you to take care of an iguana. Enough stuff on your plate right now.
But here’s the deal when we make mistakes like that. We can go a couple of different ways with it. now obviously the ideal way to go. So learn from it. But often that’s not what happens. Often we continuously make the same mistakes without learning from them. Bob, how can, when we make mistakes that are more serious than getting mad about an iguana.
Because a lot of times they will be. How can we grow from that? How do you, when you make a mistake, how do you let that be an opportunity for growth?
Bob Bickford: This is the hardest part, I think, especially for those of us who don’t want to be wrong and we don’t want to make mistakes. What I think one of the first things is you really need to sit with it a while and understand as much as you can about the mistake you made and what the circumstances were that led you to it. And why you made the decisions you made that led to you making that choice that eventually ended up in a category. You said, man, that was a mistake. That was an error. I shouldn’t have done that.
So most of the time, we just want to forget about it and move on. We want to blame it on somebody else. We want to excuse it. We want to, we do this a lot with it. I’m just, it’s on him because I’m so busy. I don’t have time to mess with the stinking lizard. And so you put that off on him rather than, you could have done that rather than sitting with it and go, okay, wait a second here.
Am I doing too much, did it leave me in a place where I’ve got, low bandwidth? And that was an irritant to me. And I just felt overwhelmed. Was it the fact that somebody was being passive aggressive with me? And then why does passive aggressive behavior make me freak out? And why do I react so strongly to that?
You got to think through those sorts of things. And then you also got to realize in my own personal life what’s going on, it sounds like you realized I need some time off. I need to refresh. I need to recuperate. I don’t need to be doing everything. And so then that leads down towards the. The evaluation where my spiritually,
Who’s most of the times we make mistakes when were feel pressed for time, we’re out of margin, we’re tired. We’re frustrated. We don’t make good decisions because we feel like we have to make a decision right now. Cause we just gotta move on. Yeah. And so most of the time our mistakes are made from fatigue or frustration and we can undo that those circumstances in our life. If we take time to pause, develop leaders, delegate.
We just had an episode where we’re talking with Bob Bumgarner about how do you delegate not dump and how do you develop leaders? So maybe that’s a part of fueling, some mistakes that you’re making. And so what I would say, sit with it unlayer it, peel it back, understand all that led to it. And then I will say this, and
I don’t know that I have an easy answer to this, but you’re going to have to deal with the emotional weight of making a mistake in an appropriate manner. So you could let a tank, you and you can be frustrated and grumpy at the family and down on yourself and then get into some unhealthy behaviors and sinful behaviors. Cause you’re so down on herself.
You could discount the fact that you could question your call to ministry. I just, I, I. Rookie pastors would make this mistake. I must just not be called or I must not be gifted. And so you have to deal with the emotional baggage and the way to that. And that’s probably some of the hardest for us specifically, if we’re.
A performer in our personalities, because we don’t want to make a mistake. We don’t want to see in those less than we don’t want to, but don’t get a bad grade. We don’t want to not win.
JimBo Stewart: Failure is a far better teacher. Then success. But we have to embrace that idea. what is the Disney movie about the young scientists that the family of inventors, Jimmy neutron.
There’s a movie, but here’s the great point is it’s this whole real quirky family that they make all these inventions and random stuff all the time. And one of the things I always ask on a dinner table is what have you failed at?
Bob Bickford: Oh, okay.
JimBo Stewart: and they celebrate that.
They said they set late there. They’re asking, Hey, what did you fail at this week? And you share that in a Hey, awesome. That’s great. You failed at something, which means you get to learn at that thing. And we’ve talked about this before that kind of year three slot dark season storming, horrible time. Terrible. No good, very bad day.
Season of replanting. That if you can come out on the other side of that. Chances are, yes, you’ll look back and there’s some wounds. But chances are, you can look back and say, may not. I really grew. I know I really grew a lot in the Lord in that season. That could not been a gift I would have gotten from success.
Bob Bickford: Absolutely. And.
That’s why we should understand. first of all, failure. is good for us in that sanctifies us and shows us we’re not invincible and we’re not God right where we’re fallible. We’re finite. We mess up all the time. And so there’s a good part of failure that makes us dependent upon the Lord and dependent upon others.
And so those are good things, right? And so making mistakes is if you’re making mistakes, awesome. Great. Welcome to the replant family. If you’re not making mistakes, you’re probably playing it too safe. And you’re probably not doing anything significant
JimBo Stewart: or you’re not being honest.
Bob Bickford: You’re not being honest. Yeah. That’s a good point.
JimBo Stewart: Yeah, they’re not doing something significant. Or you’re just not self aware enough or honest enough to see that. Things are
Bob Bickford: mistakes. That’s right. Cause you can, part of the mistake you might be making is just being too passive and too complacent.
JimBo Stewart: Yeah. I see. So a lot of times guys will be just, or people in general.
Going back to the self awareness piece. Sometimes, I can’t even figure out where they made a mistake. There are people. We all have blind spots, right? So just in a tip. To make it real easy and accessible to everybody. We all have blind spots within our personality. And don’t realize fully how we are perceived by others.
growing up, I’m just, I am, I’m a red blooded and passionate of a person. as can’t exist. And it took me a long time to realize. I don’t have to be passionate about everything. It’s actually not good. To be passionate about everything. And I, one of the things I learned from others.
Was. My being so passionate about everything I believe actually often comes across as pride and arrogance because I bring my ideas, which I actually maybe holding loosely. But I bring them with such passion and [00:22:00] excitement that you would think it can come across. no, I am 100%, right? You’re 100% wrong. You have to believe the way I do or you’re wrong. Even if I don’t say that. Or maybe even think it.
But it, I was not self aware of that for a long time. And didn’t realize that people thought I was incredibly arrogant and prideful. I just thought I was super passionate and usually right.
Bob Bickford: You probably work.
JimBo Stewart: And so it took the help of others to help me see that and grow in that.
Bob Bickford: Most people are not super high passionate people. The majority folks. think about it. Percentage wise, if everybody in our society was a super hyper passionate person, like it would be awful.
JimBo Stewart: They would annoy me.
Bob Bickford: It’d be competing profession, right? no. And you’re up in each other, But some of us are, and we just don’t realize how we come across to others. And I remember the setting in a particular church, I was working in pretty large church and, I was in my mid to late thirties and I was just.
Super passionate about everything in my mid to late thirties. And. And everything was urgent and everything was critical. Everything had to be done now. And if we didn’t do it right now than it was going to be awful and everybody’s going to lose in the kingdom of God was going to lose and et cetera.
And I had older people around me that just were, they had experience and they really had perspective and I wish they would have taken me aside as a. 30 something and said to me, Hey bro. I love your passion. But not everything is as urgent as you think it is. Yeah. And we’re going to be okay. Because my perspective was, do you just don’t care about anything anymore? You’re just old and dried up or.
It’s come on. Everybody needs to be like me. And, and so that’s one of the mistakes we make in the youthfulness. And this just gets into another point, one of the best. Teachers in our life is failure, but one of the best translators of failures in our life as a mentor. And a mentor can put his arm around us or, for, for our pastor’s wives. they could have a pastor’s wife and you put their arm around, just think it sit across the table from us and they can do a couple things. One is they can remind us that every failure is not final.
because of the sake of the gospel for, because of the truth of the gospel and that every failure doesn’t determine your future. And we just need to know that failure’s a part of life. That if we embrace it and learn from it. And not run from it. Not excuse it. God can do some really productive things in our life and we’ll be more seasoned, will be more humble and will be more useful in the hands of God.
JimBo Stewart: That’s good. I think. You cannot overestimate the value. Of having somebody a little farther along in the past, speaking into you. And lovingly calling you out. Challenging you encouraging you. And all of the above.
I look back on my life, honestly, Bob and. Feel unbelievably blessed. With so many men that God has put in my life. To pour into me. That I look at who I was at 19, 20,21, and I would really hate to hang out with that guy.
Bob Bickford: I wish I had a time machine that I could go back and hang out with the 21 year old Jimbo from maybe a couple hours.
Can I watch you from afar? Yeah. Okay.
JimBo Stewart: It would be entertaining for sure, But annoying. and I just, I’m just so I’m so grateful that God has put people in my life to do that. to temper me some and mature me some and made me more patient and understanding and less passionate all the time
Bob Bickford: and realizing
JimBo Stewart: that sometimes it’s okay. Just be chill.
Bob Bickford: Yup.
JimBo Stewart: And just sit and learn and for me and my personality, everybody’s personality [00:26:00] learning like. Silence doesn’t need to be filled with my voice.
Like it’s okay to just let other people talk. And finish their thoughts and actually listened to them. And care about what they have to say. And I had something I had to learn, that was not naturally without me. I had to be taught that and learn to. To do that. And Don’t. Don’t beat yourself up. When you make mistakes are just a tool to help you.
Get sanctified.
Bob Bickford: That’s right. and there’s plenty of sanctification that needs to take place in everybody’s life. And what I would say is this is not A. I’m a truth for just when we’re young, it’s a truth for the rest of our lives. because I make mistakes now at 53 that I didn’t make when I’m, the different mistakes than when I was 35.
And if I can have that perspective of not feeling like I have to be perfect, but embracing my [00:27:00] weaknesses. And learning from those, then I’m going to be a better of the better person who God’s created me to be. And then I, I always need to have somebody in my life who can give me the perspective to lovingly challenge me.
And care for me and accept me. In my imperfections, not accept my imperfections, but except me in the sense that they remind me that I’m loved by God. And that I’m, that my failure is not final.
JimBo Stewart: Absolutely. I’ll close with this illustration that I first heard from. Matt Chandler. He said, think back 10 years ago in your life.
And chances are, if you look at yourself 10 years ago, there are some glaring blind spots that you can look back now and go, man, what an idiot.
And he said I’ve had that conversation with so many people that I believe that it’s universally true. And it’s not all universally true right now, but the point he was making gets, it will be universally true in 10 years. And so in 10 years, if you asked yourself about yourself now, What were my blind spots. And why was honey? Why an idiot? You would have reasons as to why that would be. and so that’s just a good reminder that there are always areas you can grow in and mistakes and mentors.
This week the guys offer some insights on how you might actually find a church to Replant. In addition to finding out that Bob bailed on being a High School Teacher and JimBo a Professor you’ll gain some key insights into the practical steps you can take in finding a church to Replant.
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Show Notes: want to read along while the show plays? Check out this episodes show notes below delivered by: Descript
JimBo: All right, back with the replant bootcamp, excited to be jumping back in. As a matter of fact, I’m excited in just a few days, I will be seeing you in person.
Bob: Yes.
JimBo: And so the next episode will be an episode recorded with us, in the same place. probably in a hotel I imagine.
And I’m excited that we’ll get to do that together. We’ll be at the North American Mission Board Replant Summit in somewhere Missouri. I can’t remember where
Bob: Greenwood
JimBo: Greenwood, Missouri.
Bob: South of Lee’s Summit, Missouri.
JimBo: Okay. none of that means anything to me
Bob: Kansas city Metro area.
JimBo: there we go, Kansas city Metro area.
Bob: Yes. And the burning question in your mind. About the location is do the people there have teeth.
JimBo: Yes. Yes. This has gotta be better than the last hotel we stayed at in Missouri.
Bob: Jackson. Yeah, I think we got some hate email about that one. I’m not sure. No, man. I’m excited. We’ve got over a hundred folks who have responded to attend and we have made a lot of preparations to socially distance and keep everybody safe. And so pray for us that everyone stays safe. We’re gonna encourage replanters and encourage those who work with replanters.
And I’m super pumped about this years summit methods and models of [00:02:00] replanting, and it’s gonna be great. And I can’t wait to see you again, face to face. It’s been awhile. I’m trying to remember the last time. but, we’re gonna, have a couple of podcasts together, so pretty pumped about that.
JimBo: The last time I think we saw each other was in March, right before everything really escalated, at the AMS training, in Atlanta.
Bob: Yeah.
JimBo: Yea h , actually, if you can make it happen, there is still time to register, I believe. And you can, meet us up there.
We’d love to see you.
Bob: Absolutely.
JimBo: so one of the things that I believe we’re going to see an increased need for on the other side of all of this COVID stuff is more replanters. I believe we have already had a pretty huge need for that, but I believe a lot of churches are going to be in a position where they’re going to need a replant revitalization pastor.
So we have this survey that we worked on published through NAMB. That we hope you’ve already taken. If you haven’t, we’ll have a link in the show notes for you, or you can just go to churchreplanters.com. Click ‘Am I a Replanter?’ And then click ‘Take The Survey‘ and you can do the survey will take you about 10 minutes.
It’ll give you a whole awesome customized PDF report on there. Then on the very last page, there’s an article that you need to read that Bob wrote talking about. Okay. So you took the survey, that you have the characteristics and qualities of a Replanter, but how do you find a place to replant?
I had a phone call just this week with a guy. From all the way across the country who has planted a church and is considering being a Replanter and him and his wife were open to it being pretty much anywhere in the country. And, And so we had a long conversation about what that might look like for him.
So I know there are going to be more guys as they take the survey or whether it take the survey or not, or maybe they had to resign from it church, as we’ve talked about that even basically, and [00:04:00] now they’re looking for a place where they can lead. Not only did I have a phone call yesterday with a guy, I just had coffee with a guy today who was talking about, Hey, I am convinced that this is what I’m called to.
He took the survey and said, The survey affirmed for me that this is my calling. It showed me a couple of areas that maybe I could grow in, but it affirmed for me that this is my calling and this is what I need to do. So we talked through some options today at, having a cup of coffee. So talk us through Bob. if you didn’t have any red flags shining, you feel confident. This is your calling. If you’re married and your spouse says, yes, I affirmed this. This is where we’re going. You’ve talked with wise counselors in your life that know you. And they say, yes, I would affirm this calling in your life. How do you go about becoming an actual Replanter?
Bob: man. I would love to say that there’s this app, that’s like a tinder for replants and Replanters.
JimBo: left swipe.
Bob: Yes, but there ain’t. that’s the more, the number one questions we get is how do, how does the church we’ll ask it’s? How do I find the planters and the Replanters say, how do I find a church? So the first thing I wanted to say JimBo is, and this might especially be true for the guys that are not currently engaged in ministry, but the seminary guys who has been in the process of preparing for full time ministry, they may be in a larger church, a more contemporary church, a healthier church, A church that has some size to it.
One of the things I would want to say is confirm your call by going and serving a struggling church right now. don’t wait, do it right now. Here’s true story. I changed my major about four times in college. first I went, and, wanted to be a, like a basketball coach and education guy.
So I love science. I won first place in the state science fair. so that’s pretty awesome. And we had a [00:06:00] great basketball team. So I thought, Hey, this has been great. I want to go be a science teacher and then they have this class, your sophomore year where you go and actually visit in a high school or a second middle school.
And you actually get to sit in there and take notes while the teacher’s teaching. And JimBo, you know what that did for me, it confirmed that I was not called to be a teacher. Sorry. What am I thinking?
JimBo: Yeah. Yeah. I had a similar experience when I thought maybe I needed to be a bi-vocational pastor and a professor at a college. And I got an opportunity to do a little bit of guest teaching in a few classes in a confirm for me. I do not want to be a college professor
Bob: Yeah, there’s nothing better than finding a struggling church and taking your wife. And if you have a couple of kids and going and being part of that church right now, right? You don’t go from like the big church with all the programs and all of the, Great staff and the multiple staff and, great restrooms and great bulletins and all that kind of stuff.
That’s not an easy transition from that to a replant. So my encouragement, especially if you not connected with a local church, if you’re in seminary, even if you’re like a person who’s evaluating the call to ministry, go check out the churches in your local area. Talk to the association leader. And say where’s the churches that struggling that I need to, that I could go and just be a part of, that’d be a good number and help, and then come alongside the pastor and don’t look to preach, but just look to help that church as the lay person and serve them.
And one, the pastor will be super glad that you’re there, but two you’ll really confirm your recall.
JimBo: Yeah, I want, you could even take that a step further if the opportunities are there. You could find a church in process of revitalization or replanting and ask that [00:08:00] pastor, if you would lead you in a residency process. And even if he so listen, even if he has no idea how to we’ll do that, if he’s open to the idea, then contact us or have that pastor contact us and we can help equip him on a way to.
Kind of create a residency process for you, where you could go and experience all sorts of things at a smaller church where you would serve for a little bit children’s and youth and senior adults, whatever you get exposed to those things, there’d be a reading list and it would help you become more exposed and equipped with what replanting is.
And so you might come out on the other side of that. with a much better understanding and equipping for that. There’s a guy that we did a residency with because very qualified guy master’s degree in church planting, but he had only experienced very large churches. And so he had no idea what it was like to be [00:09:00] in a.
Under-resourced or limited, much more limited resource church where you can have a huge idea, but man, you better figure out how to off because we don’t have the budget. the people for it, everybody’s already serving in seven different ways. and so you can, can’t just go, Hey, we’ve got this great new initiative.
Let’s build team, have a budget, do it. And he did a 10 month residency with us and just answered in view of a call two weeks ago at a church revitalization and has already called me and said, Man. I’m so glad I did. Yeah. 10 month residency. Cause it helped prepare me for things already that I’m walking into.
And so there could be a great value in just getting that exposure and equipping. But if you can’t find a residency or a pastor that feels ready to do that, just being a part of that church and a good member and serving and worshiping there, and having your family there will help either confirm or let you know that you’re not supposed to be a Replanter.
Bob: Absolutely. I would say to Mark hallux, starting an online residency, there are residency programs going along. So you got 40 weeks of training. Even if the pastor can’t train you or doesn’t want to train you, or is intimidated about training, you could do your own self paced training with Mark House.
We’ll put the residency link in the show notes. And you could just go through the corporate work by yourself, or there might still be time for you to sign up because I think it was going to begin in September. So that’ll be the first thing is, go be a part of a dying and declining church right now.
Second thing that I would say is consider context. And location. So context, urban, suburban County counties seat, rural. Those are your contexts, right? So some of us are urban guys or suburban guys. So most are rural guys. And here’s what I would really say are good buddies, Matt Hensley and Kyle Beerman have written a book called, replanting rural churches.
And if you’re a rural guy, grab that book and read, and think about it. But you might ask yourself a question, where did I grow [00:11:00] up or where am I? It was one of the live, like what kind of pace of life do I want? What, where are we as a family right now? Do we have a young kids, little kids do we need a Walmart or a K-Mart or, or Popeye’s chicken?
Are we okay with just a diner? that sort of thing, you just got to know your context and then you think about geographic location, where might God send us? I would think one of the things that is typically true. Is, we tend to stay within a geographical region, Jen, of where we grew up most often.
We might move three or four States away, but it’s okay. Very rare for me just to pick up and move all the way across the country, because it’s a completely different location, a different kind of life, a different kind of attitude, all those things. It does happen. I’m not saying it doesn’t, but it often doesn’t.
And so think about that with your spouse. You’re married. Think about your history, where your family is, where they’re from. if you have kids you’re going to want to be maybe within driving distance of your grandparents, of their grandparents, of your folks, of some other relatives you want to think about holidays, all those sorts of things, or you may just think, man, I have always had a passion for, The frontier areas.
And so you think men will want to go out to Montana or Idaho or Wyoming or something like that. but let God speak into that. Do a lot of research, think about the places where you might want to go. I remember I was a youth pastor JimBo and had some connections with some guys that were, went to a larger church and knew some other guys that went to larger churches.
And so I had a pretty extensive understanding of what a large church. Youth ministry was like, particularly in the South. And so that was back in the glory days. When, you gave, pizza feeds and concerts, give bikes away and all that kind of stuff. I got a call because I had grown up in a large church, youth ministry and an intern there.
I got a call from a pastor in Anchorage, Alaska [00:13:00] who wanted us to come and interview Alaska. Okay. So I’m not a Hunter. I like to fish. those sorts of things. But I remember he sent us a book about Alaska and we look at Barb and I started looking through that book and I remember very clearly, Barbara said, I am not moving to Alaska.
So guess what? We didn’t move to Alaska. But context is important. So you gotta think about that.
JimBo: Yeah, my wife said she wanted to be in any state in the Southeast, other than Florida
Bob: And look at you now.
JimBo: here we are for Liberty ans. okay. So one of the things I think it would be helpful when you, if you haven’t taken a survey already, when you take the survey. the very last question that we have on there says, is there anything else you would like us to know? it’s an optional one. You don’t have to fill it out, but if you have a particular context that you’re going to just ask whatever questions you have there.
You could say. Are there any Replants or who would I say, who would I talk to about finding a replant in st. Louis, Missouri, and if that’s where you want to be. And if you’ll put that in there, when we see that I’ll do everything I can to connect you to the right people. Now, I don’t know what replant opportunities are out there all across the country, but between me and Bob and others on the neon replant team, we can.
Probably connects you to the right denominational work. That’s going to know what opportunities are out there for you. And so if you can put that in there on that final question or anything like that you want help connecting with the right people, then I can’t promise you anything, but we can gladly try to help connect you with the right people.
Bob: That’s a great segue to the next point, JimBo with, if you’re looking for a replant, you [00:15:00] need to connect with local partners. So you’ve identified the context. Maybe you discerned the locale. There are so associational leaders, state, convention leaders, even some seminary professors, folks that are in particular locations that’s really key for you.
So nobody knows better what churches are in need of pastors and Replanters than the associational missional strategist. And so if you can get in contact with them and you can reach out, there’s some ways to do that. but find the association leaders, one of the easiest things you might just go to the state convention and the state that you’re considering, and you might contact the revitalization leader and simply say, Hey, I know you have connections across the state, or maybe there’s several regional guys that work with the state.
And you simply say, are there some churches in this particular area of your state, or if you get in [00:16:00] contact with the association, Hey association leader. Are there any churches in your local association that need to be replanted? They’ll absolutely have some in mind. I guarantee it. The great thing is if you’ve taken this survey and you’re able to share that with them, they’re able to understand and see where your strong areas are and where areas of growth are.
And in many ways, in many times we’ve worked with these guys to help them understand how to have a think about. Helping Replanters acclimate to a new position. We’ve equipped them to work with the local church to get it set up for a week planter. And so we’ve got a lot of partners across all of North America and even some into Canada who understand what replanting is more so than when I was replanting.
So I’m super pumped. So the good news is, we can help you make some connections. Now that connection is an introduction. It’s not a placement. And so you still have to understand that this is an opportunity for you to [00:17:00] introduce yourself to the association leader or the state convention leader, and begin a longer conversation.
And, I think if you can do that and connect with local partners, that’s really gonna help you.
JimBo: Yeah, I think one of the hardest parts about trying to find your way into a replant. Where it really vary so differently from being a church planter and feeling called to plant a church. If I feel called to plant a church in a particular community, man, I can literally start today. if I feel called to plant a church in st.
Louis, Missouri, and I live in st. Louis, Missouri, like you, then it’s as simple, as far as starting today as. Starting to prayer walk, go in and meet and people sharing the gospel, starting a small group and seeing where God takes it. But I know for me, We felt called to replant. We didn’t know that word yet, but we knew we, my wife and I both [00:18:00] felt affirmed that God was calling us to go to a dying church in an urban area, in a transitioning community.
And. It be under the foster care of a larger church for a season and see God do mighty things through the gospel. That’s what we knew. We knew that clearly that’s what God was calling us to, but Bob, it was over a year. Before we were given that opportunity and I put my resume. I didn’t put my resume out for a while.
I really just wanted God to give it to me on a silver platter. And for me not to put my resume out and I didn’t.
Bob: mysterious phone call or email. Hey. Yeah.
JimBo: Honestly, I didn’t, here’s what it was. I did not want the opportunity to make the wrong choice. I didn’t, I did not want, I want to choose to go to the wrong church. I wanted it to be abundantly clear that God was calling us there.
And in my [00:19:00] mind, that was the way to do it was just to pray and ask God to just deliver it. And for some people that may happen. But it did not happen for us. And so some mentors and people who love me, challenged me and said, Hey, I, we affirm that God is putting this calling on your life. We think you need to take the step of faith of putting your resume out there and seeing what happens.
Now, some people may feel differently about that. I know people who feel like you should never put your resume out, and I know people who feel like you should always put your resume out. and so wherever you feel on your conscience, you follow what the Holy spirit is telling you to do, but we felt called to put our resume out.
And so I literally just sent my resume to the state convention. A very Southeast state and even some outside of the Southeast. Cause I did ask my wife, how do you feel about that? She was not real comfortable getting outside of the Southeast. because of, culturally you get outside of the Southeast, it’s just a different culture and both of us grew up in the Southeast [00:20:00] and we just didn’t know what that would mean.
we did put some feelers out there and some other States as well, and I did it. I get a lot of kind of random calls from random churches. But none of them were specifically what we knew. God was calling us to, into an urban context with transitioning church. And honestly, Bob here’s one of the things that I dealt with was I wanted to control it.
And finally I felt. Like I just needed to release it and I just needed to forget it and just let God do what he is going to do. And so I let go, and it was a couple of months later that I got a phone call from Hybris about his church in Fleming Island. And they described exactly what we knew God was calling us to and in an urban area, transitioning community, we would be fostered by them.
And so we came down and man. Through a whole long story. I could tell you, God just confirmed that this is exactly where he was calling us. [00:21:00] And I’m so glad that he confirmed it in that way, because when it was very difficult, it was good to know that this is where God called us, but you gotta be patient because this is not probably going to be a quick process.
Bob: Yeah, you’re right. That’s the last point. And you just got to commit to patiently wait and prayerfully, wait, your story, the way you told it is one that I see over and over again is people who are pursuing a good thing and desiring a good thing. And wanting that to be delivered to them bright now.
And if you look at how God prepares somebody for ministry, there’s usually a desert or wilderness or preparation process, Moses went to the desert, Jesus apprenticed in wood shop, there’s this preparation that takes place, Timothy traveled with Paul for awhile, And You’ve just got to understand that the waiting time is not wasted time.
And so here’s what I would [00:22:00] say to the person who is waiting to find that next ministry location, particularly that replant do everything you can do to get yourself healthy, physically, mentally, spiritually relationally, and make sure that’s solid because he’s a, we know that you and I both know. Is just the first three years of replant will attack you on each of those dimensions. Like you are going to get nailed, right? You’re going to get nailed. You’re going to gain weight. Your marriage is going to be strained. You’re going to think that you’ve made the worst mistake of your life. You’re going to be stressed and depressed and all those sorts of things. So this is it’s like training for a tough Mudder.
Alright. That never ends that’s you gotta be in shape, bro. Like you and your everybody’s gotta be in shape and you gotta be clear and ready to roll and it’s going to be a long slog. So I just want to tell you, don’t waste your [00:23:00] waiting time. And enjoy it and then particularly enjoy this enjoy every Saturday night that you just have.
Free without that sermon hanging over you and then all of the responsibilities of Sunday, and then Monday coming back around and you realize that Monday that you got to ride in another sermon and you got to lead for another week at the church. Cause that’s a grind. And so don’t despise your downtime, your waiting time.
You use it to be prepared, prepare in every way possible that you can. And then just realize, I think like you did. You guys had a pretty clear picture about what you felt the Lord was calling you to, and here’s the reality that church wasn’t ready for you when you were ready to be a Replanter. And so that’s your, God’s doing a work on that church and he’s doing a work in you. And then when it’s the right time he brings you together. And I know that no, that sounds super spiritual in a sentence kind of mystical and all of those sorts of things, but it’s really true. and you just got to trust in the sovereignty of God and that he’s faithful.
And he’s gonna, he’s going to take you where he wants you to go and start. I just wanna encourage you read planner. If you’re out there, just struggling can think of man nobody’s ever going to call. I’m just resting in God’s timing in that and trust him in that. And I guarantee it he’s going to be faithful to you.
JimBo: excellent. Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Do us a favor. If you did go to whatever service you listen to this on and leave us a review that helps us get the word out and let other people know. that we have this podcast and like it, share it on your social media, help us get the word out.
Also let us know what questions you have. We’d love to make sure that we’re answering the questions you want answered. Maybe even bring you onto the podcast with us. Hope you guys have a great day. See you again soon.
EPISODE #47 - DEVELOPING PARTNERSHIPS WITH OTHER REPLANTERS AND PARTNER CHURCHES
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The guys fielded a question from Johnny Upchurch on Partnership-Thanks Johnny for being a bootcamp listener and for giving us a great question for the podcast.
Q: How do I go about cultivating and growing partnerships with other Replanters and other churches?
Here are some of the quick bullet points from the guys as they answered Johnny’s question.
Take the initiative to reach out a fellow Replanter in your area, talk about your questions, joys and frustrations.
Have a clear vision and a prospectus-get help and coaching from a church planter in your area-they are usually skilled and experienced in this area.
Determine your needs: how can partners and people help you most? Avoid the trap of only considering the building and finances as ways people can partner.
Define the Relationship: make sure you both understand the terms of the relationship-partnership is a 2way street, both have something to give and receive.
Money often flows toward activity and vision.
One of the partnerships you might consider is allowing a church plant, who may not be able to meet in the school they were renting, to join you for worship. Either as an adoption or marriage or sharing space.
When considering partnerships make sure you two churches are aligned doctrinally, and missionally. This takes time!
Avoid combining two struggling churches-it multiplies the struggle.
Churches are built for partnership-it makes sense! It’s important to find ways to partner with other churches in your city.
Build a relationship with your Associational Missionary Strategist or Director of Missions-they often receive calls from churches who are looking for partnerships with other churches.
Episode # 45 - The HABITS of a Replanter - Affinity for Multi-Generational Ministry, Respect for a Church's Legacy, and Willingness to Confront
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Today Jimbo and Bob talk about the habits of effective Replanters-these are essential characteristics that are critical to effectively replanting a local church.
Affinity for Multi-Generational Ministry: A Replant pastor with an Affinity for Multi-Generational Ministry is able to connect easily with both the young and old in his congregation so each group knows they are loved, valued, and heard, and so all ages are pastored well.
Respect for a Church’s Legacy: A pastor with Respect for a Church’s Legacy knows how to love and build off of a church’s past without allowing people in the congregation to idolize it in an unhealthy way.
Willingness to Confront: The Replant Pastor with a Willingness to Confront is able to willingly (not eagerly) navigate conflict with directness, love, humility, patience, and wisdom – driven by a love for the church and her members.
Are you a Replanter? Want to know more about your strengths and areas for your personal growth? Take the 13 Characteristics Survey and receive your customized report.
We are thankful for our great sponsor, One Eighty Digital, check them out for all your website needs-mentioned you’re a bootcamp listener when you contact them.
Episode #44 - The HANDS of a Replanter: Pastoral Grit, Resourceful Generalist, and Initiative
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It’s hot in Florida and Missouri, Jimbo is another year older and we’re continuing the discussion related to the 13 Characteristics of a Replanter. Grab a glass of sweet tea or lemonade and join us as we look at the “Hands” Quadrant and discuss: Pastoral Grit, Resourceful Generalist and Initiative.
Pastoral Grit: Pastoral Grit is the ability to persevere through the inevitable difficulties of replanting and remain steadfast to shepherd the church forward as God uses the Replanter to turn a dying church around.
Resourceful Generalist: the ability to speak into and lead in a variety of areas in order to lead the church well. There is no task beneath him.
Initiative: The replant pastor with Initiative leads the church with a passion rooted in biblical convictions and demonstrated in a bias for action. He proactively works to avoid problems, as well as finding or creating new opportunities.
Check out the Am I a Replanter? Online Preview event Monday, July 27th at 7-9pm CST over at the ChurchReplanters Facebook page.
Episode #43 - The Heart of a Replanter: Gospel Orientation, Missional Focus, Emotional Intelligence, and Spousal Perseverance
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Jimbo is back from vacay and the guys break down the characteristics of a Replanter under the category of heart of a Replanter. Stay tuned all the way through from some helpful nuggets and book recommendations by the guys at the end of the podcast.
Gospel Orientation refers to aligning the culture and practice of the church in such a way that the core doctrine of the gospel drives its mission and practice in preaching, managing conflict, and leading organizational change.
Replanters with a Missional Focus make it a priority to equip and mobilize the congregation to live their life on mission in their community and beyond for the sake of Christ and his gospel.
Emotional Intelligence is “the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one’s own emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.”
Spousal Perseverance: The replanter’s wife possesses a love for Jesus and the Church. She is emotionally and spiritually prepared for the challenges that come with replanting a dying church.
Replanter are you married? Encourage your spouse to join the private Facebook group by emailing replantwives@gmail.com
The guys recommend you and your wife consider Christian counseling, if you need help feel free to email us and request some recommendations.
Here are some helpful book recommendations to study more on these topics.
