JimBo Stewart: [00:00:00] Here we are. Back at the bootcamp. Back at it again. Bob, I hope you’re ready for the next episode. Another revive summit edition. This time we are in the great metropolis of Mount Vernon, Illinois.

Bob Bickford: Exactly right. I’ve driven through here many times cuz it is not far from my domicile. They’re in Webster Grove, St.

Louis Metro familiar with it, but only the truck stops.

 It was amazing tonight. I think if your church has some Mennonite women in your kitchen.

You’re gonna win. So tonight we had, it was kind of carb fest. We had, chicken pot pie. Meatloaf, lasagna, mashed potatoes and green beans.

JimBo Stewart: I will confess I tried all of

those

things.

Bob Bickford: Well, I’m not a chicken pot pie. Never have been.

Never.

JimBo Stewart: that. Well, I’ll tell you what that was one of the, if you were gonna like chicken pot pie, it

would

be that

one

If you don’t like that one, you

don’t like chicken pot

Bob Bickford: Well, I threw up chicken pot pie one time and so that, that’s ruined me from chicken pot pie [00:01:00]

JimBo Stewart: now Green corn

Well, Bob, I’m excited. We have a guest a good, it’s becoming a good friend. We’ve gotten to travel.

Frank Lewis was with us, last August for the Replant Summit was really our first interaction with Frank.

And now we’ve been doing these REVIVE summits. With him traveling across

the country.

Frank, welcome to

the Replant

Frank Lewis: Thanks

Jimbo. Bob, man, it’s great to be here. We’ve, we’ve had, uh, I told my wife last night, we have laughed and cried our way through, uh, the last several days. It has been so much fun.

JimBo Stewart: Absolutely.

Bob Bickford: Frank,

just give us a quick backstory, your experience in ministry and just share that. Cause I,

most

of the boot campers probably they might not have ever heard of you cuz we, we have a very selective niche audience. .

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. By very selected niche. That’s a nice way of saying a small audience.

Frank Lewis: Oh my goodness.

Well, I gave my heart to Christ when I was 16 years old in a revival that was preached by

Bob Bickford: Junior

Hill.

JimBo Stewart: Oh oh,

Bob Bickford: Okay.

Frank Lewis: [00:02:00] that’s a, Yeah.

he’s

uh, he’s like southern Baptist evangelism, royalty,

you know? And, I came to

know Christ

and.

knew,

very soon after that that God was calling me to preach cuz I was raised in the church.

I, I had just not made a profession of faith until I was a teenager. So I, shared my decision with our church when I was probably 17, almost 18 years old, that, that I, since God was calling me to preach and this godly, layman in our church named Bill. Said, well, Frankie, if God’s called you to preach, have a sermon ready next

Sunday, you’re going with me to the Birmingham City

JimBo Stewart: Jail,

Frank Lewis: Okay.

And so, uh, that, that was my first, you know, get your toes wet. But, you know, I just knew, that afternoon when I was preaching to those men who had probably had too much to drink the night

before. Mm-hmm. , you

know, th

this is

what

God’s

called me

to

do.

Bob Bickford: Mm-hmm. .Yeah.

Frank Lewis: Not, drink

the night

before,

but

[00:03:00] but,

you know, preach and that, that sort of thing.

I,

I,

I I was just like a fish in water. so I went to Sanford University after Sanford, I went to New Orleans Seminary one day sitting in. the, president of the Home Mission Board, which of course is now

Nam,

Bob Hamlin said, if we’re ever going to have, our cities one to Christ, we’ve gotta have young men with seminary degrees who are married to wives, willing to work outside the home. Probably without children, and we want you to go to our big cities and start churches. And, uh, I, I went home that day from, from seminary and, and told my wife about what I’d heard. she was a nurse by training and we. Did not really want to start our family right away. So we, we thought, yeah, that’s us.

And the Lord opened up a door, for us to go to Las Vegas, Nevada. Mm-hmm. and start a church in a suburb [00:04:00] of Las Vegas called Henderson,

Nevada. Mm-hmm.

.And so we planted the Green Valley Baptist Church and it’s still there today, going

Bob Bickford: strong.

That’s great.

Frank Lewis: we’re so proud.

Bob Bickford: And so Vegas, uh, from Vegas, then you came back towards, the, I guess not the Midwest, but the kind of, the what, what, where did you

move

to? to? Nashville.

To

Nashville?

Yeah. Yeah.

So is that the buckle of the Bible belt or is it like the first notch

Frank Lewis: in the belt?

Well,

I, I think it

qualifies

as

the

Bob Bickford: belt really

JimBo Stewart: from

Vegas

to

N Vegas

Frank Lewis: Yes, yes.

And more ways than one. I’ll tell you what, uh, Nashville has just exploded in growth, in the. 25, 26

years now

that we’ve been there.

I came to Nashville to work at the Baptist Sunday School Board, which of course is now lifeway. And I was in the pastor staff leadership department as the preaching and worship

consultant

for the convention. So I led conferences all over the United States [00:05:00] for, pastors. We would talk about preaching and pastoral.

mental health, physical health, you know, just trying to keep guys from burning out and being thrown out, that sort of thing. we started a new magazine called Let’s Worship and launched it during my time at the board and got to preach and in some great pulpits and. and just really loved that, ministry.

And then First Baptist Nashville called

me. Uh, I was already

serving as a pulpit supply in their contemporary service, and they, uh, they called me about a year and a half into my ministry at lifeway, to become their senior pastor. And I just finished, a 25 year ministry there in December of 21 and stepped down to let, somebody new pick up the torch and run with it.

Bob Bickford: Mm-hmm.

JimBo Stewart: Man,

it’s so great.

I, I’m so

excited

that we

get

to

introduce

you

to our

bootcamp listeners. And, before we dive into the content, just as we have learned about Frank, Bob and I have [00:06:00] just become

fascinated with the

many

layer. Of Frank Lewis and we have slowly learned that Frank is not only a

phenomenal

preacher.

We learned

that

pretty quick.

but he is, a black

belt

in

every kind

of

martial

arts and Eagle

Scout

and maybe the scariest

man

Bob Bickford: ever met.

Well, you wouldn’t know it cuz Frank, your demeanors, I mean, you’re so kind and gracious and friendly and, but he could kill us if he needed

JimBo Stewart: to.

Well, I mean, I joke about it, but honestly I would, in an honest way, I would say Frank, I think you embody meekness, you embody

strength

under

control,

and

there’s

the meekness

that

you

have

comes through

in

your

preaching.

Mm-hmm. .

And it makes you want to just pull, lean in and, and hear everything that you have to say.

Frank Lewis: Wow.

Those are kind

words.

And,

I’m thankful if, if God has used me that way in, the, short time. That you’ve known me, it’s been with, pastors and and rep planners and, you

know,

I I remember early in my days in Vegas, I went

[00:07:00] to

an event where all the, church planners had

to attend

and it was this annual meeting and somebody from our state convention came and and just told

us,

What, sorry guys.

We were,

that, that

we didn’t deserve the, the $500 or $300 a month at the convention was paying us to plant churches. Cuz all we did was sit at home and prop our feet up and watch television and I thought, you know, God, if you ever give me the chance

to

encourage pastors, help me never forget that experience because I, I knew how horrible that

felt and, uh, helped me to be able to say something that’s gonna be encouraging to somebody.

Bob Bickford: Mm. Well, one of the things in your talk that you, did for the revive gathering here in Mal Vernon, Illinois is you talked about clergy self care.

And, you know,

even

on

the

topic of how do pastors care for themselves and how do they, make sure that they’re [00:08:00] taking care of their spiritual needs or physical needs, those sorts of things. Why is it.

Guys who are engaged in either planting or renewal revitalization, replanting. Why is it so easy for a pastor in those settings, even a traditional church, to neglect himself and his own, wellbeing?

Frank Lewis: Yeah. Bob, you

know,

that’s such a great question and, and I think it’s really got a, a fairly

simple answer

and that

is,

you

know, , if you’re in that role of planting, replanting, or

as you said,

all the demands that a pastor has to, have on his shoulders, your schedule

is pretty

crazy.

Mm-hmm. ,

it, it becomes

a task master. Mm-hmm.

….And you’re gonna have early morning meetings with people who maybe that’s the

only

time

they

can

meet

is,

is for

an

early

breakfast or you’re

gonna be out late, late, late with people. you. in Las Vegas in those days. My wife worked as a nurse. She worked the afternoon shift, two to 11 at the hospital.

And so I would be up late when she came home.[00:09:00] and we would talk for a couple hours it seemed like, you know, and kind of hear about her day and that sort of thing, and go to bed

kind of late. and then

if

I were up early

in the morning,

it was because I had some

place to

go and, some, body to meet or something.

And so it’s easy to

neglect

those

disciplines,

uh,

especially

those,

those

that are

kind of

time

sensitive.

You

know, when you’re a college student, a seminary student,

you’re on

a

schedule mm-hmm. ,

you’re

on

a

calendar and you have to be at class at

a certain

time. And, it’s.

To

probably

do your devotions in your room

or

somewhere, than it is when, when you’re trying to do all these other things and you get on a treadmill and it’s hard to get off of it, you’ll be running, uh, you’ve got this opportunity, you’ve got

this meeting.

You’ve,

you’ve got that deadline. You’re, you’re trying to juggle

so

many plates

all

at once.

that, I think it just becomes,

well,

I’ll,

I’ll, I’ll do

that.

Bob Bickford: Mm-hmm.

Frank Lewis: And

later never comes.

Bob Bickford: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I know.

I [00:10:00] remember as a college student, I could wake up early, I could go all day in, into late.

but I was a youth pastor for a while. I did some lock-ins and that ruined me. I couldn’t stay up late anymore. ,

then they got old

JimBo Stewart: I

Frank Lewis: Well,

lock ins

are

the

devil

Bob Bickford: I thank

you.

Amen. Right.

for every lock-in you, do you

lose a year of your life?

I think

so. my time might be up next week, so I

will see

Frank Lewis: Yeah. How do well

I, I think you seriously

have to

be, dedicated to your

calendar

that you’re gonna keep, you’re

gonna schedule,

uh,

time for

those things

that are most important.

Yeah. Uh, just

like

you would

have time set aside to prepare a sermon, you’re gonna have to put on your calendar. Devotion, And,

and

it

becomes, a, a [00:11:00] habit. It

becomes

a good

habit,

when you practice it. so for me, years ago, I just made the decision, no Bible, no breakfast.

Mm. And

so I get up in the morning, I’ll, I’ll have a cup of coffee. today, of course, like so many, I use logo goss. And so I’m, I turn on my computer and, I’ve got a. a reading plan in my devotional for 2023, I have my prayer list for 2023 and, and it’s just a very easy process for me to read through, that day’s scripture reading.

I have a commentary, a devotional commentary that I’ll

read beside

that. Then I spend some time going

through

my prayer list.

I

have a, a Daytimer journal that I’ve used since I was probably 30 years old. And so I u I use my Daytimer page to write my thoughts about, you know, what

God is

saying to

me

spiritually, those kinds of things.

and then I’ll, I’ll spend

some time

on my

knees. I, I, [00:12:00] The

physical

posture

of being

on

your

knees

is

just as critical as anything else. That’s a part of my

routine

in the morning. and it’s

anything

but

routine. It be, it becomes, you know, I, I know

if

I have

missed that, my whole

day.

is impacted.

And if you miss it more than a day, if you miss it for a week, it throws

a

wrench

in

your

system and your preaching shows and your parenting shows and everything else shows.

And,

in a similar way, I schedule the other things that I have on

the

list.

I,

I exercise three days a week. I have one day that I do heavy lifting.

That’s usually on either Friday or Saturday. you know, I’m, I’m lucky. I’ve, I’ve got a great place at home for that. So some guys might have to go to the gym. when I was pastoring First Baptist and I went to the gym, I knew more people there, you know, and everybody wanted to stop and say hello and talk and, you know, you couldn’t get your workout in unless you were ugly to people.

So,

uh,

so

I made the investment and [00:13:00] I’ve got a, a nice, you know, cage at home and, and I can, I can put some

pretty

heavy

weight on it and, it’s

just a life giving

routine

for me. the martial arts was a part of. , not so much today. I mean, I’m 64 now, but, you know, in my, in my fifties, I, I was, I was pretty lean and, and I would, I would go to class three or four times a week, and that put me with a different group of people than, than church

members. Mm-hmm.

and these, these,

these became dear friends over the years and there were guys.

Sought

to, share Christ with and have gospel conversations with, got to baptize, you know, two or three over the years, and minister to others in other ways. that’s all part of it too. But if you neglect

your.

Physical exercise, your body’s gonna pay for it, and your ministry’s gonna pay for it because you have to have a way to get

that

stress

out.

If you don’t get the stress out by, physical exercise or by [00:14:00] art or running, or, you know, doing something, to, that gets you outdoors and gets you sweating and gets the heart rate up and all that sort of stuff, it’s going to shorten.

Your ministry in the

long

JimBo Stewart: run.

Bob Bickford: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Frank does not look, 64. He looks like

57.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. That’s

part of being

a kung fu master.

Bob Bickford: he

mentioned something. Jimbo, I’ll, I’ll explain this to you in, in our younger listeners. Can Google it. A Daytimer is a paper organizer

JimBo Stewart: Yeah, I,

I’m, I’m familiar.

I, okay. Yeah. I

had

a daytimer

for

a

long

time,

a physical

one.

I only

recently

moved to

a

Remarkable,

yeah,

that’s,

it’s

just

digital

paper.

yeah,

It’s not like an iPad,

but

I have

a

Daytimer

basically in my

remarkable,

I, I,

do

the

same

thing.

I,

I

I have keep my

calendar

in there,

and

then

there’s

the

And I

use

that

page

and I, and I work

through

things

that

are

going

on

in my life and, and, and

with

my soul.

And

I

think

it’s just

so

important.

I

think

it’s

one

of

those

where

I

have

learned,

cause

I

am

not a

[00:15:00] naturally

orderly

person.

I

am,

I

am much

more

of a,

I

mean, I just

prefer

to

go off

of. Of

intuition

off my gut,

whatever

I

feel at

the

moment.

And I really

don’t

like being

constricted,

by

personality. But I’ve just learned

the benefit

of, if I will, if, if I’ll choose

some

areas of my

life

to

just

be

very

rigidly

disciplined,

it’ll

actually free me

up

in

other

areas.

And

so

if I’m,

if

I’m

a

little

more

just

rigidly disciplined about having time

in the word

before

I

do anything

else, getting

out

there,

getting

physically moving,

sometimes getting my blood moving,

and

getting

that

stress

out. I, would affirm

that it’s, there were so many moments.

I remember

I

got

in the

best shape

of

my

life in the

worst

season

of

ministry.

Mm-hmm. ,

because I remember

thinking like,

all

right,

I

gotta

be in fighting

shape because

this is

hard

and

I’m

having

a fight,

spiritual

warfare,

and so

I

can’t have anything

holding me

back.

And

so I

was

more

dedicated.

physical

fitness

in [00:16:00] that season of my life than I ever have been.

Frank Lewis: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes

a difference.

I

think

it

clears your

mind. I think you can, handle some of the other opposition

that comes your

way with a, a sense of confidence that you’re taking care of yourself. your blood pressure’s gonna be

better,

you know, all, all those things that,

I mean,

it all

works together.

God, God

knew he was doing

when he

knit us together, didn’t he?

Bob Bickford: Mm-hmm. .

Yeah. One of the things you mentioned, in addition to, you know, stuff we often hear in terms of spiritual health, spiritual disciplines, exercise, fitness, diet, those sort of sleep, you mentioned that as well, but you mentioned something that you labeled social support.

Frank Lewis: Yeah.

Bob Bickford: Can you unpack that for

Frank Lewis: us?

Oh,

I’m glad to. You know,

when,

when

I

went

to

Nevada, I felt

like

I was,

in a

season of

life that in

some

ways was

so very

exciting.

I had, this

new

circle

of pastor

friends,

and we were.

In

an

area

that

was,

you

know,

it was

the

mission field.

Oh, yeah.

[00:17:00] Southern

Nevada was targeted in 1985 as the number one city that Southern

Baptist needed

to plant churches. And

so

you’re out

there

with

some seasoned,

longtime Nevada

pastors.

and,

uh,

we,

we had a breakfast

every

other

Tuesday morning

and it

was at this

little

restaurant and we’d

go

in there

and of

course,

this is hilarious. when

I think back on it now, you

know, we

dressed

up

like it

was

a

Sunday

morning

and

a

big

church.

You know,

we

all,

we

all

had our coats

and

ties on

and

yeah. You’ve this,

remember

what year

it

was?

This was,

this

was

19

JimBo Stewart: Back then, man,

if

you were

a

pastor,

that’s,

that

was the

Frank Lewis: you you

know,

it was,

it was part of

the

uniform. you

you might

see

somebody

on

the

side

of

the

road

that

needed

help

and

if

you

pulled

over and

you

were dressed

up

like

a

pastor,

they would,

they might

let you

help

’em, you

know?

so anyway,

but, but you got to know, you got to know

that circle of guys. Well

then,

[00:18:00] also

arrived.

Southern Nevada at the same time that, a United Methodist pastor, a Lutheran

pastor,

a Catholic priest,

and

an

American

Baptist pastor, all got

there

in

the

same,

time,

the

same

window.

And were all trying to plant churches in

this

same

little neighborhood

in Henderson

called Green Valley.

And we started doing, first of all, some, you know, Christmas community services together or a Thanksgiving service together. And, and that friendship became so critical to each one of us, we

would celebrate

with

one

another.

When

one

of

us

got to purchase property.

Hmm. We

would

celebrate when one of us got to build a

building. Mm-hmm. ,we

would

celebrate

as

we would, uh, see our, Discipleship ministries and our outreach ministries take traction. And at the same time when we’d had a month where [00:19:00] maybe everything was going wrong and there were some of those months too, we could crawl on each other’s shoulders for some prayer support and that group.

Really was a, a great little fellowship group during that time. And I remember when I left, made my announcement that I was leaving the church to go to the Sunday school board. it was, it was the American Baptist pastor who reached out to me first before any of the, you know, my Southern Baptist tribe did, to just say, Hey, I just wanted to pray with you and pray God’s

blessing

on this new season.

That sort of thing. I’ll never forget that and, and how meaningful that was to me,

but those relationships will carry us in ministry. you’ll pick up the phone or you’ll pick up, you know, you’ll send an email or a text message to a, a ministry colleague, and they’ll get it, whereas nobody else in the church is really kind of on your safe list to

say

certain

things to.

they’re just.

unfortunately, there’s [00:20:00] just some things that, that we don’t talk about with our personnel committee chairman

or our

deacon

chair.

mm-hmm. .

Uh,

but we need, we need an outlet. We need a brother in Christ who will pray with us and encourage us, and, they’ve licked their wounds in the past and they know what those are like. So I had that, kind of group in, Nevada. And then in Nashville when I became pastor at first Nashville, one of the professors from a nearby university put together a little, You know, a little group. There were six of us pastors and we would go on a retreat twice a year, usually, usually around November, and then again, probably sometime in April.

And, and we would spend two days with some assignments looking at the text of scripture

and, um, This professor taught Greek at one of our Baptist colleges. And so, he would really pour himself into us. And it was kinda like sitting in a, in a doctoral

seminar

[00:21:00] setting. Yeah, yeah.

You

know, and we would, we would talk about our preaching.

We’d have two

days to

do that. We’d have some good, good fellowship. We’d go to eat, you know, some nice restaurants and, That became a group where we could also talk openly and freely and with some great confidence that what we were sharing wasn’t gonna show up in somebody else’s sermon next week.

That sort of thing. tho those guys treated that as a sacred trust and, I think every pastor benefits from being in a group like that.

JimBo Stewart: What

advice

would

you have for a guy who

he

does

not

have

that kind

of

social

support? His calendar at this point is so chaotic.

He’s

bivocational trying to run this church solo pastor.

she’s

got kids

at the house and so he’s thinking when he hears this, that sounds.

how

do

I find the

time?

How

do

I find

the guy I can trust? because you know, you trust the wrong pastor with your most vulnerable thoughts and, that can burn you as well. And, what

[00:22:00] advice

would

you

have

for,

for that listener?

Frank Lewis: Well, that, that’s a great question, Jimbo. I think that the first thing I’d want that pastor to hear is not to beat yourself up for being where you are.

Mm-hmm.

if you’re

if you’re bivocational and you’re

trying

to

get

this

church

started and you

might

have, a young family. You know, you might have teenagers.

What? They’re

different seasons

that we

go through with

our

children. they’re unique seasons and, and they demand, you know,

that they

all

have

certain demands of

us, but you can, at the same time, you can start where you are making little. Small incremental changes. And I th I think the first change I would encourage is to look at your devotional life.

I shared

with

our guys

today something called the soap outline, and it’s

from Wayne

Cordero New Life, uh, fellowship and Hawaii. Uh, heard

him at

a

seminar

years

ago

and he said, if you’ll

take,

the scripture and write [00:23:00] down your observations. An application and write a prayer based on that scripture.

And he says, and if you’ll let that be your, your

daily

devotional outline, you’ll never lack for something to say

when

it

comes to time to preach.

So here’s a

bivocational pastor trying to juggle sermon preparation and all those things. find

a daily

devotional that will feed your, your spirit and your soul in such a way that you can f you can share from the overflow.

JimBo Stewart: Mm-hmm.

Frank Lewis: and

that might address some of the time demands on sermon preparation and Bible study

preparation.

I think the second thing I would say is, look at your diet, look at your

television

habits,

you

know,

that kind of thing.

the whole idea of, of staying up really late at night because we’re depressed or tired or depleted and, too tired to go to sleep, so we just sit up and watch television for hours.

you know, there’s, [00:24:00] there’s probably nothing on the late night television that you’re gonna use an a sermon,

Probably

not.

you know,

so, so your

sleep,

your sleep’s gonna

be much

more

important, so,

try to shoot for seven hours, maybe eight, if you can get ’em in. I, I think that’s gonna be so beneficial to

JimBo Stewart: Frank.

thank

you

so

much

for

taking the time to be on the podcast with us today.

Frank Lewis: Well, thanks for having

me. You guys

are

the

best.

It’s

Bob Bickford: great to have you.