JimBo Stewart: [00:00:00] Here we are back at the bootcamp still. And the Bob Bickford presidential suite at the, at the Omni hotel, specifically reserved for LFA himself. And, it’s sad that it doesn’t get used throughout the year, unless there’s an incredible spot. You have to get a special permission for anybody else to use this suite.

Right? I have no idea.

Bob Bickford: I just showed up.

JimBo Stewart: You got the same

Bob Bickford: room? Well, no, last year I checked in early and they gave me a double, a room with two double beds that overlooked. AEC on top of the roof. So it was not good year. Last year, I’m back in the Primo spot at the corner. I can see the Ferris wheel, the CNN building and Centennial park though.

It’s

JimBo Stewart: it’s legit. A couple of years ago, we recorded a few episodes in here and to give fair warning to our guests today, Johnny rumble, we had your son, Jason. We did here last year and the day that his episode went live. Uh, tornado hit east [00:01:00] Nashville. Now here’s what was hard for us that we had to start thinking about our mojo was that’s the second guest that we had on that year, that the day, their episode, the other ones, Micah freeze, the day, his episode went live a tornado, hit his community.

I believe it was. And so. I’m hoping if I’m just going to tell you if, if, uh, if a tornado hits you, we’re just not going to post this.

So, hopefully that doesn’t happen this time. We’re so excited. We’re getting to record a handful of episodes here in Atlanta at the Omni. explain real quick, give us a short rundown, Bob, of what it is that we’re doing here.

Bob Bickford: While we’re recording. We are at the replant practitioner lab we’re training, associational, missional, strategists, and dos to consult, dying churches.

To help them envision a better future through replanting revitalization, partnership, replanting. And one of the very first participants like yourself, Jimbo that joined us was none other than Johnny Rambo. And [00:02:00] here’s the deal like he has just taken this journey and has done amazing things. And I think, I, I there’s.

other Dom who’s just like killing it. Like Johnny is, oh

JimBo Stewart: man. He is like the replanting ninja. He’s he’s quiet. He didn’t like, so we had Walker on who’s loud and direct and a velvet hammer. Johnny’s kind of quiet and yeah. Yeah, it just, but man, he’s just doing an incredible job of leading. And so he’s approached this in a really unique way that we haven’t seen as many others do where he primarily is executing this through interims.

And, and so man, just give us an overview of what that looks like. executing this process in an interim. Okay.

Johnny Rumbough: Well, you’ve heard me quietly when I wasn’t talking about this topic. Right? You get me talking about this topic and I start talking loudly and excitedly. I love the topic so well.[00:03:00] you know, I do not lead, all of our churches through the interim process when, whenever they become without a pastor.

but if I’m available, I will lead a church through this process. as their interim, if I’m available and if they’re interested. And so, matter of fact, you know, it’s interesting how over the last four years, how we got here, Orchestrated that because I would finish one and maybe I’ll have a Sunday off.

We’re not necessarily all, but at least back to the regular routine and that, and then I’ll get that phone call. Now. I can’t tell you those phone calls are always the kind of phone calls you want to get, you know, cause I, I remember it’s interesting how you remember these dates, you know, January the 23rd, 2018, and 2019.

And it was, it was, a deacon calling me saying, Hey brother, Johnny, can you meet with us tomorrow? I don’t know if we’re going to survive this, you know? Well, there’s two things about that. You know, that conversation is one is he was calling me to ask me if I would meet with the deacons, because he didn’t know if they were going to survive what they were going through.

and so obviously the answer was yes, and, you know, I want to help with that, but [00:04:00] also the desperation in his voice, I thought, well, wherever they are, whatever’s going on. they’re postured, they’re ready to receive help. And so, uh, so I was glad to get a, and then there was another time when I got a similar phone call from a deacon who’s I don’t know if we’re gonna survive this.

So, even though that’s not the kind of phone call you want to get, uh, it is the kind of phone call you say, okay, this church is probably ready. And so when a church is ready, those are the kinds of churches that are like leading through this process. What are

Bob Bickford: some of, what are some of the signs for you?

You’re looking forward to that demonstrate a church. Is at that point of readiness, what are you looking for?

Johnny Rumbough: Yeah, well, you know, I mean, it’s not necessarily desperation because, because at first I thought, well, a church has to be desperate to be willing to go through the process. and those are the kinds of churches that I want to serve as their interim pastor, because I felt like, Hey, you know, it’s, you know, we’re just going to get to get to business.

But, but it’s not desperation. you know, we, we, we often mentioned the word ready. and sometimes I’m asked, well, how do you know if a church is ready? Well, you know, basically I just say.[00:05:00]In the, in the beginning, when I was talking with the church about whether or not they’re ready, I’ll just say this.

I’ll say you need to be willing to take everything off the table and only put those things back on the table that you think will help you to have a future, this thriving and bringing God great glory. And so, so if, if there’s anything that they’re not willing to. To take off the table then, you know, that’s like their God, right?

So, so, you know, that means that’s going to be a hindrance, or if there’s anything that once they get it off the table, that they’re going to try to put back on the table that doesn’t need to be, that doesn’t belong there, then I’m going to, you know, that’s not, that’s not a good heart either. So, so I wanna make sure that they’re willing to do whatever it is this necessary for them to be able to have a future.

This thrive. And bringing God great glory. Now I can do that better as an interim, then I can as a third party. And so, so that’s why I love doing the intros because it, it helps me to get right the running there with them. And plus I love the practitioner piece of being an interim, you know, You know, I’m just old enough now where, where, I’m just ready to put in [00:06:00] practice, you know, some of what I’ve learned.

and so, the interim part allows me to do that. I’ve been in Lexington for 26 years, as the AMS and, but only for the last four years. Have I been serving as, as an animal at any church. so yeah, so the readiness is, I think, you know, again, it’s not necessarily desperation.

sometimes it’s just a matter of saying, okay, is this church willing to do this? you know, the quick story is, the last church that I served as interim. It was June, I think at 17th, it was father days last year, through November of this past year. So, so for about, about six months, During that process.

th this is a church, that’s 22 years old. started in my home 22 years ago. they had the first seven Bible studies in my home. the planting pastor stayed there 17 years. his associate that came with him to plant, when the planting pastor left, the associate pastor became the pastor and he was there in additional, for five years.

And then he left. The national mission board. Well, as he was preparing to leave, he asked me if I would, if I’d be willing to lead his [00:07:00] church, through this process. and I said, you’re talking about us in Rome. And he said, yeah, I said, I’d love for you to be the arm. I said, man, I don’t know. I mean, I I’m, I’m familiar with the church.

they don’t really know me because they’re a lot younger than I am. And you know, these 22 years, I mean, they they’ve just reached a lot of the, new people in the community who have not become a part of the association, you know, as far as attendance. and I said to him, I said, Jimmy, I said, I don’t know, man, I’m, I’m an old man.

And he said, this is what he said. he said, well, everybody needs a granddaddy. And I’m thinking what everybody, what kind of response is that? You’re asking me to be the interim granddaddy got a swimming

Bob Bickford: pool and a boat. You are

Johnny Rumbough: as cool grand. Well, cause do you think I’m cool? I hope

Bob Bickford: you’re can be your grandkid.

Johnny Rumbough: Alright, or do you use so set up. Okay. And so I met with, so met with the leadership and they said, yeah, let’s, let’s do this now. They didn’t really know. They knew that I was coming to be their interim. And then you, the, the departing pastor was wanting them to go through this process, but they didn’t know what the process was about now.

[00:08:00] Were they ready? Well, so, like I said, we started father’s day of last year, which I think was. 17th or so, and they called their pastor and their password started the first Sunday in December. So it did not take them. Time to go through the process. and they, I mean, they may gray ground in a short amount of time and they call it the right, the right guy.

So, so, you know, I mean, this was a church that didn’t even know what the process was until I went there and they weren’t even sure what the process was, but, but I helped them to realize I came to be there and to lead them through this process. And they were fine with being the interim piece. And then when the process kicked in, they got on board with it and we had a great, great experience.

Bob Bickford: What are some of the, the steps in the process you’re working in a process to get them ready for, to call a passer. So as the interim, what, what are you taking them through? What are the steps that you’re leading

Johnny Rumbough: them through? Well, you know, I mean the, the noun replanting practitioner lab, you know, laid the foundation and built the structure for us to build the [00:09:00] strategy.

And so, this is how I said, I said, you know, mark left and wrote the book. Bob Bickford wrote the, the notebook, the training manual. And I just colored in the pictures, you know, because really you guys did, you guys put it together, but, but for me, you know, I think I shared this with you earlier. You know, I came in the very first training.

It was in 2017, in March of 2017, I came and I got my notebook. Right. And when I came and got the train in and I went back home, you know, uh, at that time, you know, 21 years as an EMS in Lexington, never having served as interim pastor never really thought I would. But sitting really on the notebook and the material from March til January.

I wasn’t quite sure what to do with it. I really didn’t know how to put it into effect. And so in January, 2018, when that first church asked me to be their interim, and I thought about it, I thought, you know, I’d like to do this. And I met a covenant with the Lord. I said, Lord,[00:10:00] if I go to be the interim.

That church, then you’re going to have to give me the sermons because I don’t have time to prepare them. I’ve got this, the other full-time job. So, and the Lord did that. I mean, he, you know, I love preaching through series. I’ve not had the opportunity that for love preach, the book had not had that opportunity that, so I went there to, to, to lead them through the process, but I was like a Sunday school teacher because you know, the, the one who learns the most, in a sense.

As the sentence, school teacher. And I felt like in that interim, that first interim, you know, I mean that benefited me to be able to lead a church through this process as the interim, and just sort of put into practice what I had learned, you know what, nine months earlier, but also what a.

Try to do for 22 years because as AMS, I mean, you know, trying to lead toward church health, you know, trying to read the right books, go to the right training, doing the right things, work hard. And still yet that 80% plateau to declining percentage just stayed there for 22 years. I mean, more than that, you know, we’ve just seen that there.

and so[00:11:00] I just wanted to put in practice what I had learned. And so, Mark wrote the book. Bob wrote the training material. I colored in what I call her has been very, very helpful for me. I’m not saying it’s not for anybody else, but anybody to ask me, I’ll be glad to show them, show them my coloring pages.

Right. But that photograph, you know, y’all have the five phases. So I’ve took that. I’ve taken the photograph and I’ve created a funnel. So, I’ve added, you know, Practically I’ve added the things that work for me. What works for me to answer your question? You know, what does that process look like? I take one sheet of paper and I meet with, the leadership.

say if it’s a church that’s looking for an interim pastor, meet with their passage committee, I’ve trained them. Cause I trained all of our past search committees. so after I trained them, I say, Some churches are finding this to be a good time to go through this process. Now I have changed in Lexington a couple of years ago.

I changed the name from revitalization or replanting to futuring. I love that too. [00:12:00] Okay. and I changed it a future because, you know, I was having such great success with all of our churches saying yes. You know? Yes, yes, yes. To everything. Yes. We want to go through the process yes. To the recommendation.

So there’s one church that I presented. I didn’t have the photograph. I just did it. You know, I thought I was pretty good at it, you know, so I did it without my picture. And. And the deacon said, no, I said, well, I felt like that was

JimBo Stewart: the first. No,

Johnny Rumbough: you guys first know, I don’t like that. That seventh grade just got rejected at the school.

Bob Bickford: That happened to me a lot as a kid.

Johnny Rumbough: I try not to remember those days, but I mean, I felt so rejected. Well, so, so, but that’s not the end of the story. So they said no to me, you know, One of my T w the, one of the pastors on my realization today. they wanted an interim. So I, mentioned his name.

He became their interim. Okay. And he says to me, he’s done it. He said, can I show them that. I said, sure. You know, you try it.[00:13:00] so I printed it for him. The only thing I changed was I changed the word future, revitalization process to future process. Now everything else stayed the same. That’s the only thing I changed was instead of saying revitalization process, it says future.

Yeah. And they said, yes, they said yes. And so, I didn’t feel rejected anymore. And so I no longer had the note I have now. Well,

JimBo Stewart: it, so that it is one of the things that we do encounter pretty regular is there’s something about that. The word revitalization that for some people there’s this shame of, oh, we’ve, it’s almost like, oh, I got to go to marriage counseling.

Oh, you know? Oh, I could never go to marriage counseling and our marriage didn’t happen. Uh, and so they think Leo, we can’t go to revitalization. That means we failed. If we’re going to revitalization, that means we fail. And then especially replanting replanting means completely we, [00:14:00] we failed. And so I I’ve had conversations with pastors that have said their leaders have said, just don’t use the word revitalization anymore.

So maybe just use the word for you. Yeah, maybe that’s maybe that’s the key. You just got to say

Bob Bickford: futuring, I’m going try to use that word in a lot of different contexts now.

Johnny Rumbough: So here here’s the deal. So the very next week after my team member, he got the success, you know, he got the. I had, I had a deacon to call me and say, Hey, John, would you come and present to our leadership, this process that, you’re leaning towards the, and I said, yeah, so I changed it.

I said, you know, cause this was, this was a church, you know, they’re very, you know, pretty, pretty straight. And I said, I said, yeah, I’d be glad to kind of do that. So I changed it to a future in process, you know, I thought that must be the key word now, futuring process. So I change it. So I spoke to his, I spoke to his leadership about the future.

Three days later, he calls me, Hey brother, Johnny. We voted yesterday to the revitalization process.

I said, so, you know, this is, this is what I have found, [00:15:00] you know, you know, we, we use those three words sort of interchangeably, somewhat synonymous on the plan. So it doesn’t really matter. You do on the front end is what you do on the backend. It’s, it’s what they vote on. That really makes a difference.

And so if the word future rain will get me, you know, my foot in the door or, or capture their attention for a span of time, especially as they’re in pastor, if that will be, if that’s all it takes, man, I don’t mind changing the work cause I’m not changing anything that was in the process. you know, here, here we are.

whether I’m the interim pastor not, but I loved it when I’m in impasse because you know, that relationship that you’re able to build, as an interim pastor working with the church, I’m not good at training. so once they go through this process, which usually takes about six months, then, they’re usually asking me if I have a resume of somebody that I know that’s been through the training that they could call us, their pastor.

and I usually have one or two and so far every church, you know, I’m hesitant to say this, you know, but I’m going to say every church, every church, [00:16:00] every church that we’ve led through this process, Has called the resume or to one of those resumes to be their next pastor, everyone, because they want to pastor, you know, that they want to pass.

Understands what they’ve just been through. And so, and usually, you know, the pastor wants a church. I mean, he’s thrilled to get a church that’s come through this process. So it’s, it’s, uh, I mean, it’s, it’s a win-win so sometimes I have one pastor telling me, he says, Johnny, you’re like a matchmaker.

I said, man, I don’t want to be a matchmaker. I want to be, I want to be the best man at the wedding, you know? And so, so, so the, the interim piece there allows you to build that relationship with the people that is. Yeah, it’s very, I mean, it’s not just pastoral it’s I mean, I just want to say it’s more than being France, I think because you have some influence in their future, and then you have some ability to be able to introduce them to somebody, him as their pastor.

And so far every one of those guys that they’ve called, to be their pastor. I mean, it’s done, uh, [00:17:00] I mean, they’re, they’re just doing great. and so we’re, we’re really excited about that. Another piece that I want to just mention to. Yeah is w we’ve we’ve added this for process. And I got this from mark Clifton when he was, uh, he was talking with, um, he was doing a podcast with Tom Reiner and, mark was talking about how, when a pastor goes to a church, and he was talking about, revitalization and replanting pastor.

He needs to love the people who in God’s putting that church and not the. He wished God to put in a chart and he was talking about, you know, man, if you’re out, if you’re out in the, in the rural area and you’ve got, you know, farmers go out to the, to the fields and just get to know them. And one of the things he said there was, get to know their Jesus story.

And I was, I heard that about four years ago and when I heard that, I thought, wow, that’s amazing. I thought that would work. And this process that we’re leading church through with revitalization, And so, so what I’m doing, is every time I do this now is I lead every, I lead every [00:18:00] church through what we call small group member meetings.

And what that consists of is, groups, small groups of five to seven people, five to seven church members meeting with me for about 45. And they know, you know, because it’s announced where they sign up for their, for their time slot, that I’m willing to ask them two things. I’m going to ask them to share their Jesus story.

And I’m going to ask them to share their, share their church story. That’s it? Jesus story, enter a story. And it has been, I mean, it has been phenomenal what God is. Let me, let me tell you real quick about, about, well, I want to tell you about two things. One is yes. I won’t talk, I won’t share with you about.

Lady whose name is Debra. Debra was actually on the team that I’m working with on this church, leading them through the revitalization process. She was a team member whose responsibility was to coordinate and to recruit people, just to sign up for the small group. Debra, came to our first for the first session.

She said over to the left. And, but she didn’t sit around the table and stand around the table [00:19:00]where the people that she had recruited to come to that, to that small group meetings, there were three couples, six people, all senior adults and their story, their Jesus’ story was, was quite similar. You know, they’d made a decision for Christ when they were young and had joined the church and baptized when they were young.

And then they’d been members. multiple churches and have been a member of that church for over 10 years. so for about 40 minutes, that was the story we heard in that very first session had three, had four more sessions after that with other people. But that was the first one. When DABRA had told me that she’s now I’m going to be in and out of these meetings.

I’m not sure you know which one I’m gonna share. My, my Jesus story that I’ll share with Deborah, didn’t leave that meeting. She sat in that first meeting, the whole, the whole 45 minutes. And at the end of the six senior, don’t share their story. she pulled up a chair beside you. It wraps up where I was sitting, to the table and she said, she said, I think I need to share my Jesus story now.

So here I am sitting around a table with six senior dos, all gray hair, right. Debra pulls up, her chair sits right at the same table. And she says, I think I need [00:20:00] to share my story now. And she said, my story’s very different than y’all’s now Debra, you know, had black. Well, black and blue hair, you know what I’m saying?

And, and so, so it was quite a contrast with the gray, silver hair, seeing her dolls. And Deborah said, my story is different than yours. She said, not four years. my husband was shot and killed. And, about two months after that, my son was invited to the kitchen bottle of school here at this church.

and after VBS was over, she said, he asked mom, can, can we go back to that church? And she said, well, yeah, I guess I wouldn’t say they started going. And she later made a profession of faith and then was baptized there at that church. And that was four years earlier. She still has black hair, black and blue hair.

actually I’ve seen other colors. I asked, I asked those senior adults sitting around the table that day. I said, have you ever heard her story? And they said, no, you haven’t. No, not any of those six senior adults had ever. I asked them, have you ever heard their story? And they said, no, I though [00:21:00]in this amazing.

So that was the very first session in the first, for first day, since then, I’ve done about nine sessions at that church. and every one of those sessions, I made it a habit to ask all the people around the table. Have you ever heard their Jesus story and not anybody has said yes, I have not. Other than the

JimBo Stewart: husband and wife, it’s three questions.

What is your, what is your Jesus story? What is your church story? And have you heard anybody else’s before today? Have you heard anybody else’s like we had this

Johnny Rumbough: third question. Exactly. Cause I hadn’t thought about doing that before, so yeah.

JimBo Stewart: Yes. I mean that’s gold for not even just for an interim. I mean, any pastor in a replant or revitalization.

Ought to take this idea and run with it, man. And just, I did similar. I did with individuals or households and I think, man, there’s, there’s gold in that bring in some of those members together here. D is there a strategy to how you group those five or six or is it just time slots, whatever. And you just let the holy spirit put the right people in the right group or, yeah, they,

Johnny Rumbough: they sign up.

So it’s 2, [00:22:00] 3, 4, 5, Time flies. And so they just go up and I’ll have six blanks. And so they design it. Sometimes it is by family. sometimes it’s been, you know, by sensory class, you know, they’ll do it that way. but

JimBo Stewart: people just say, well, I’m not doing

Johnny Rumbough: that. Yeah, but I’ve not had anybody to come to the small group and said, and refuse to tell the Jesus story.

It’s just, some people just don’t sign up to come to it. Yeah, yeah, they sign, they know what they’re signing up for and that Institute share their Jesus story. and then I’ll, I’ll actually, I’ll do as many of those Sunday afternoon meetings as I can. ‘ cause I want to hear everybody’s Jesus’ story.

Right? I love hearing Jesus stories, you know, as you know, I’m the one who’s the most blessed cause I’m hearing all the Jesus stories they know. And but, uh, so I’ll do as many, matter of fact, this new church I mentioned to you a minute ago, that’s 20 years old. I ended up having to do, I think it was four Sunday afternoons.

I mean, they respond to really well. This was, this was back last year when they were afraid to come to church because of COVID, but they were coming to the small group member meeting and sharing their Jesus story. This is awesome. but so back to the same church. Okay. [00:23:00] Deborah was in that first meeting now.

So I did two Sunday, Sunday week ago, was supposed to be my last Sunday there to hear the Jesus stories at four o’clock that session, there were nine people. You know, for that Jesus Storytime and, well I thought, well, you know, this is going to be hard to get nine, nine people sharing their Jesus story, internet story in 45 minutes.

Well, we did. And so, at six did the other three, I said, we all, we all stay over and, meet with the five o’clock group could do for people in that. And chigger do the story. They said, yeah. The other six people that had already told her Jesus’ story, they said, can we wait because we want to hear their Jesus storyteller, not amazing.

So the pat and then the pastor calls me two days. The pastor, because this church has a pastor in place. This is one of those unique opportunities that we were leading churches through this process that have a pastor in place. The pastor called me two days later, Hey Jen. And he brother John, he said, can we do another Sunday afternoon of Jason’s stories?

Because you know, I mean, it was, it’s like a, it’s like a re I don’t want to say it’s a Reebok, cause I don’t wanna exaggerate that point, but it’s, I mean, [00:24:00] it’s definitely definitely a spiritual experience. just leading a church through this process. And I, and that’s why I enjoy being in ambassadors because, you know, I get the front row seat of being able to say that, you know, and be able to experience that.

And then in preaching the Sunday services, most of the churches that go through this process, most of the churches, well, let me, let me say it, many of the churches, cause I haven’t stopped in count, but I’ll say many of the churches that go through this process and I’m talking about the Nam replanting lab material, right?

Baptize somebody at least one person during this process, one church, I led through the process as their inner pastor. I baptized seven people at one Sunday, six adults, and one of them was a double and their 13 year old daughter. the church that still tell you about it’s 22 years old, it started in my home.

so I’m leading through the Jesus orders, right? And the worship leader, she’s telling us her Jesus story. And there’s probably, I think in her group that probably been four or 5,000 people, and she’s telling her Jesus story and she’s she shared how the, you know, she, you know, she was, she [00:25:00] joined the church and she was baptized when she was a child.

And then. Went off to college. And while she was at college, she said, that’s really when I became a follower of Jesus and I didn’t say anything, I don’t try to correct people during while they’re down. I’ll just take notes. Okay. So I’m taking notes, you know, so I can remember this story with the face later, she came out to me now she’s the worship leader, by the way, she’s the worship leader at this church.

She came up to me and she said she didn’t budge on it. She said, My next step in following Jesus, is to follow him and believes baptism. She said, I need to do that. I haven’t done that. And I said, okay, well, this church had never had an indoor bed. I mean, they’ve always because, you know, they, they’re a new church.

they have 17 acres of property, have a beautiful multipurpose building. Do not have the baptistry. but they’ve never, they’ve never had an indoor back as a baptism. They’ve always gone to the lake or pond actually. They’ve been to my, my bullets and baptize them. so I said, well, we’re going to, we’re going to borrow.

You know what I want to draw this all

Bob Bickford: church planning, you don’t have grew up in [00:26:00] Arkansas, know

Johnny Rumbough: one of our church plants, water trial. Right. And we had an indoor baptism at that church. The very first one in 22 years, the first time they’ve ever had an event. And this lady who’s the worship leader at that church.

she, she led the church in the closing song of the service that day steps off of the platform. And steps into the water, 12 to be baptized along with another lady who was seven months pregnant. Yeah. So pretty amazing story. so I love being interim pastor of a church that is going through a spiritual journey when he, that, I mean, and you know, there are other things I do, you know, this past week.

You know, but our associational pastors and a pastor really out pastor our life retreat and, you know, that’s been wonderful. and you know, we do a pastoral small group and we do, you know, six, we have six relief ministries. we are engaged in Nam sin city. And so we do a lot of other stuff, but this, I mean, this is paying high dividends for me.[00:27:00]

As a, as an AMS to give the kind of time that’s necessary for me to lead a church through this process, it’s healthy for the association. It’s healthy for me. and I’m just, yeah, I mean, it’s hard work, but I’m having a great time and I’m just, I’m just thrilled that licensed association allows me to, do this.

JimBo Stewart: Excellent. So guys, as you’ve listened and there are a few things that you’ve heard that you may want to know more about. And so we’ll have some information in the show notes about the associational replanting guide and what that, that process that we’ve referenced that, Bob wrote the notebook on.

And Johnny on the spot got to Johnny on this, my new nickname for you now, Johnny on the spot and got to color in the lines. and so I think. members, small group thing is something you ought to really take and run with and let us know how you adapted that, how you colored it in the lines.