JimBo Stewart: [00:00:00] Here we are back at the bootcamp back at it again today. I am joined with two special guests and good friends and members of the North American mission board replant team. Both of them have been guests on the bootcamp before, but never together. Here we have, Brandon Moore, who is one of the replant specialists on the team focused on state convention and local association strategies, and just being the resident.

Most brilliant scholar of the team. and then we also have Mark Halleck, on the team. Good friend of the podcast. surely by this point, if you’ve been listening to this podcast, you know, who Mark Halleck is. a pastor in Englewood, Colorado, and, part of the Calvary family of churches, which is kind of like the mecca center of replanting for the middle of the country.

So guys, grateful to have you on the bootcamp.

Mark Hallock: Great to be

Brandon Moore: Yeah, it’s good to be here.

Mark Hallock: It’s great to be with Brandon. I mean, just a beautiful man.

JimBo Stewart: He is [00:01:00] good looking deep voice.

Brandon Moore: to do with you guys.

Mark Hallock: It’s good to be with you Jimbo. It’s good to be with you brother.

JimBo Stewart: you didn’t call me beautiful, but that’s all right.

I’ll

Mark Hallock: That beard, that beard is beautiful. I’ll tell you what.

Brandon Moore: Okay. What

JimBo Stewart: what I want to talk about today guys we just came out of recently the ams replant lab where we gathered with 270 leaders from associations, some of them being AMSs, some of them being pastors, that serve with their association to help dying churches. And one of the big kind of running themes of that whole thing was really the, the power of working together and collaboration and partnership.

And I know that That’s something both of you guys are very passionate about. Brandon, talk to us just a little bit about, what are the big insights you took away from the AMS replant lab that would be good for our listeners? and why partnership is such a valuable thing.

Brandon Moore: you know, [00:02:00] One of the biggest things I think that, it’s good for pastors to recognize is that associations are maybe the most strategically placed organization in all of SBC life for revitalization, replanting, renewal work, because that’s where relationship really happens to where trust and credibility.

Can be high. and it’s really, I mean, those things are what formed the foundation of partnership. Um, and if you’re talking about replanting partnerships, crucial. So associational life is really the, I think the lifeblood of whether you’re going to see a movement of replanting or not a church can, you know, Replant one church at a time on its own, but in a, an ecosystem of a healthy association, I mean, that’s really where you can see some movement happening.

And so I think just, we talked a lot about collaboration and the, the, the power of, uh, both strong and struggling, struggling churches coming together, um, in the life [00:03:00] and the association.

JimBo Stewart: How like we were looking at the feedback surveys of a lot of the guys that attended the AMS replant lab and, your name came up a lot and, it specifically is how, much

Mark Hallock: be good for good or bad.

JimBo Stewart: For, you know, at least 99 percent of them were good. We’re not going to tell you what the one bad one

Mark Hallock: I’m sure. I’m sure.

JimBo Stewart: no, it was, you know, a lot of guys I think just resonated with, how you shared your heart about the power of what associations can do and, and really working together.

And so for this podcast, Mark, talk to us about. Where are you seeing the power of collaboration amongst churches instead of, instead of being in competition with each other, what it’s like whenever we actually cooperate, collaborate together?

Mark Hallock: Yeah, I mean, I think you’ve got to start with God and his design for the church. I mean, here’s the bottom line. If you are not a church or a pastor, leader, that is passionate about [00:04:00] partnering with other believers and other churches, then you’re actually not passionate about one of the things God is most passionate about.

We are a body. And so on a real simple level, well, do you want to work against God or do you want to work with God? Because what God’s really interested in is reaching a lost world with the gospel through a people. And that people is bigger than just your congregation. It’s the people of God. And so increasingly we, we must grow in our passion for this, but here’s what we know.

It all begins with humility. It begins with a doctrinal conviction. Yes, the God loves partnership, but then it takes humility, humility that leads you to a place that says, I don’t care who gets the credit. I want God to be glorified. And if that means another church can take the lead on something, then praise the Lord.

Um, if it means that we need to give up some leaders that we really like in order to help another congregation or a new church plant, then praise the Lord. So humility is the key in all this, which is convicting [00:05:00] because to be honest, like partnership can many times It taps into our, our flesh in a way that is pretty gross, to be honest.

Like, we like our platforms. We like our own fame and partnership kind of cuts that off at the knees because you’re, you’re basically declaring it’s not about me. It’s not about our church. It’s about the kingdom of God. But, and yet I would say this, and I think partly what we’re hearing from guys at the AMS lab and across the country, because we were made to partner.

with others. There is incredible joy. Once you lay down your pride and move into and lean into partnership, there’s incredible joy. And there’s also a whole lot of God honoring fruit that is produced because you’re doing ministry God’s way by God’s power and the spirit. And so I think if you’re interested, man, and seeing a movement in your city, quite frankly, a movement in your own congregation.

Ask the Lord to give you a bigger vision for radical collaboration and [00:06:00] partnership with other churches. It is the way. It is God’s plan. We see it all through Acts. Uh, partnership is God’s plan. So, there’s so many benefits to it, but those are a few initial thoughts.

Brandon Moore: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a shift. Just to add this, it’s a shift from like a focus on church growth, which whether, you know, we like that term or idea, like it’s just the, it’s what our culture. And evangelicalism swims in right is this passion for church growth and partnership though is a shift from a passion for church growth to kingdom growth and and that that’s what like Mark’s talking about here is the idea that like we’re willing to send leaders so that another church might grow like that’s putting our churches growth secondary to the greater kingdom growth.

And, and that’s what’s, I mean, that takes your ability, like Mark’s saying, as well as a host of other things to, to put the king and his kingdom above your local church.

Mark Hallock: Yeah. And I, and I would add this one more thing I would add is, you know, as Southern Baptist, and I know all of your listeners are not just Southern Baptist, but [00:07:00] as, as Southern Baptist, we talk a lot about Obviously collaboration, the cooperative, we, we throw around phrases like we are better together.

And that’s a good phrase. And it’s true.

Brandon Moore: an what we’re

Mark Hallock: The problem is I run into a lot of pastors and churches that aren’t actually living it out. And what I just want to say is, trust the Lord and watch what he does. When you actually seek to live that out. And so it takes humility, but then it takes faith. It takes trusting God at his word.

And cause I get it, man. There’s sacrifice involved with partnership, all kinds of sacrifice. You’re sacrificing, potentially, I mean, at a minimum time. Resources, perhaps money, leaders, you’re sacrificing and yet aren’t we called to die? As those who serve the Lord, we call to die that we might find life and that life in this context is helping other churches and seeing the kingdom advance in a way we can’t do just on our own.

JimBo Stewart: So sometimes when I’ve had this conversation with [00:08:00] pastors, some of the pushback that I’ll get is either one or two things. One, I mean, that’s just not the culture of where I’m at. Churches, like as a whole, just aren’t collaborative. There’s definitely this idea of competition. I even had maybe one or two associational leaders that spoke with at the AMS lab that were like, Man, I love all this talk about it, but You know, when I think about trying to find a church that would be willing to come help another church sacrificially, I just go, man, I don’t know a single church that I can think of that might do that.

And so most of the people who would listen to this podcast are, are pastoring a church, most likely in, some sort of situation in need of renewal, revitalization, replanting on some level, and they can be discouraged. mean, what would you say to that guy? They hear you. And then their response is, man, I just don’t know that that’s something that can happen where I’m

at.

Mark Hallock: Mm hmm.

Brandon Moore: in order to get much out of the association relationally, and to define encouragement, I [00:09:00] mean, you’re just gonna, you’re gonna have to begin to put yourself out there. I think that’s a, that’s a piece of it.

you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta lean in and engage and know that relationships just take time. and the encouragement you might get from an association, the, the benefit your church or other churches might receive, like it, it’s going to take, showing up and just being a part in what’s already actively going on, um, even if that’s not a lot, but you’ve got to, like, you’ve got to start and you’re only going to get as much out of.

Like associational life as you’re willing to put in and it, it may, it’s going to take some time to build momentum in those relationships, just like any relationship and the life of the church or anywhere

Mark Hallock: Yeah, no, that’s so good, man. I mean, I think I totally agree. I mean, step one is it has to begin with conviction. Like you’re just never going to pursue those relationships and risk being shot down or whatever. If you aren’t. Absolutely convinced this is God’s will, which I think again is where you always have to [00:10:00] start with God and the scriptures.

And I think it’s just really clear that it is because only conviction is going to lead you because here’s part of what has to happen is we need guys who are leaders to lead. and create a new culture in our associations. Okay. Let’s just name it. We just have associations where this hasn’t really been a value.

Collaboration hasn’t been a value and radical collaboration in the ways we’re talking about. So what I would say is one,

Brandon Moore: them.

Mark Hallock: the word and ask God to give you a conviction for it too. Put yourself out there. And like Brandon said, if it’s, you know, you should definitely be faithful. Come to go to those association meetings, even if they’re boring and you think they’re a waste of time, they’re not a waste of time.

You’re showing up because you love your brothers. You’re there and you’re going to encourage people and you’re going to listen to people and you’re going to hug people and you’re going to pray for these guys and you’re going to be a friend. That’s what you do. And you earn trust. And then here’s the third thing that’ll come out of that is you’re right.

There’s going to be a lot of guys who aren’t interested. They’re just not, but there will be a few. And [00:11:00] so I would say focus on the one or two. It may start with two guys, man, two guys that you start meeting with, praying with, dreaming together. Let’s do something, man. Let’s do an event. Let’s do a worship night together.

just a baby step. And you know what you’re doing? You’re living into your conviction. But more than that, you’re actually setting an example for the rest of that association. I promise you what will happen is there’ll be a few others go, man, that is so cool. How’d you guys did that? Oh man, we love it. We believe in it.

We would love for you to be part of it. And you know what? That that two or three becomes four or five and this is how you build a fire. Right? And so part of it is you start with one or two and don’t be discouraged. You don’t need mass numbers. You need one or two to start a fire. And then, and then. Set an example and then invite others to join you in the future and keep inviting and watch what the Lord does.

Because again, we were created for this. I think there are a lot of godly pastors who just haven’t experienced it. And when they see your example and your [00:12:00] invitation, they’ll join in. And then all of a sudden, man, you may have a movement on your hands in your association of radical cooperation and collaboration.

Brandon Moore: know, you mentioned the word conviction. I think it, it in part flows from that, that a conviction that these other pastors who have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them have something to bring to the table to like, to help you and to help grow you. And the Lord wants to like, it’s not just what can you bring to the table in the association, but you’ve got to have the posture of.

Like, I’m going to, just by being around brothers in Christ who may have a different perspective for me, may have a different set of, of values or ministry philosophy than me, like the Lord wants to use that to refine me. even if I may struggle to, to know exactly what I’m going to learn from someone out of the gate.

You know what I mean? There’s some guys you look at and go, man, I want him to mentor me. All right. That’s not, that may not be all of the guys you’re running into at these associational meetings, but, but the [00:13:00] Lord has given them experiences, giftings, perspectives, and most importantly is Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them that can benefit you.

And, and I think appreciating that is a huge part of what’ll keep you locked associational

Mark Hallock: Brandon, one of the things that you just described, if you want to really get down to the basics of what makes partnership work and collaboration, it’s learning how to be a good friend to other pastors, literally how to be a good friend. I think we need pastors who are intentional about becoming better friends with other pastors, which is the posture you said.

It’s a posture of encouragement. It’s a posture of asking good questions. It’s a posture of praying for one another. It’s a posture of service. It says, how can I help you, brother? What do you guys need? That’s the posture. And that develops trust. And Satan loves to bring division between pastors. He loves to plant lies in us that assumes the worst and not the best about our.

[00:14:00] Brother pastors. And so, maybe it begins with just saying, Hey God, help me to be a better friend to other pastors in this association that might then be the first step toward our churches becoming friends. You know what I mean? And doing stuff together.

Brandon Moore: going talking

JimBo Stewart: You know, there’s some research that has shown us, I think it’s like 51 percent of church leaders when they were asked, how isolated are you feeling today? So that they felt extremely isolated. And I want to camp just for a second on that idea you talked about. Just start with one, two. three people, you know, this is something we’ll often say on the podcast when people will talk about, I mean, I don’t know what to do.

There’s nothing I can do. Everything I try to do at my church, nothing works. Everybody, you know, I always, you know, my thing is like, look, here’s the one thing I know will work. Like I know, I mean, it’s not going to work fast, but it’s going to work. It’s just fine one person to disciple, like, just pick one guy, like, you don’t even have to tell him you’re discipling him, that word may be weird to him, but just go to breakfast once a week and talk about the bible and talk about how he’s loving his wife and how he’s loving his [00:15:00] kids and, and just start, just start that moving, and I think the same thing when it comes to Uh, if you’re one of those pastors that feels isolated or if you’re an associational leader that sees the need for this in your association, but you don’t know where to start and you’re, you’re listening going, man, this all sounds awesome, and I would love to be a part of that, but it’s just not the reality that we have.

I think it’s great advice. Just start somewhere. start with one guy, start with one pastor, start with two pastors, and figure out what you can do to slowly cultivate that. I read a quote recently in the book, The Art of Neighboring, and it says it’s often the small moments that count. So focus faithfully on the small things day in and day out.

Small things have a way of adding up and producing disproportionately great results.

Mark Hallock: Yes, man. That’s really wise. That’s really wise.

JimBo Stewart: So what would be some of the other values of not just, in isolation, you know, getting out of isolation, having friends, but why, [00:16:00] why should it be a priority for the pastor or the associational leader listening this, to make sure that they, uh, and not just the conviction of seeing other churches get healthy, but what are some of the other reasons that, uh, a pastor in AMS would, would value this sort of collaborative, um, nature and culture within their community.

Mark Hallock: Let me throw, I’ll tell you another one is long haul perseverance and sustainability in ministry, if we’re gonna go to long haul by God’s grace to be faithful. And I know, man, I’m guessing every pastor listening to this man, don’t you wanna be faithful , don’t you wanna finish strong?

You don’t want to be another statistic of a guy who cheated on his wife or stole money or abused power.

I hope you want to be a humble servant of the Lord Jesus until the day you meet him. And so part of this is, this is a team. Activity, man. We need each [00:17:00] other, in the association on an associational level to spur one another on in faithfulness. I think that’s huge. So that’s another benefit. Why we’re better together?

Yes. But we actually need one another. Like I need you Jimbo in my life and I need you, Brandon. And you know what? You need me. We need each other

to befriend one another. To encourage one another, to call one another out in love if we’re off on the wrong track. so I would say perseverance, man.

That’s another huge reason. I get real nervous when I see Lone Ranger guys who aren’t connected to anybody and they don’t seem to be interested in connecting to anybody. That’s a red flag. Brandon, what else would you say? What else would, would you add?

Brandon Moore: Yeah, I think, I think navigating complexity, like we live in like a really complex world at this point where change is happening super fast, culture Is, it’s not just different and changing like it has in the past, but like, we’ve just got issues coming out of this, that, that generations before us weren’t wrestling with.

Right. [00:18:00] And, and I think, you know, one of Jimbo, I love your associations, like, mantra or motto right now, like don’t pass for a loan. And, and I believe in plurality. I love, like, you know, I love pastoring as a team. That’s where we’re at in my church, but not every church has that, even if guys want it, right.

And, and so where do you find that? You find that in a local association. And I mean, in order to navigate complexity, you’ve got to have a team. You’ve got to have people that you can really wrestle with the problems. and really, you know, like toss everything against a wall and, and figure out like, what are the possible

solutions? I, I think of the book canoeing the mountains here when I think about this, like you need your, your, your group that’s going to pioneer the new, like the things that are off the map that, you know, culturally and, just leadership wise in the church. And I think for a lot of, a lot of normative sized churches, you find that in an association type of an environment.

[00:19:00] I’m going

JimBo Stewart: you know, the local association when it comes to the movement of renewal, mean, they’re the best agent and ally because of how they’re positioned organizationally, geographically with presence and proximity. you know, they can build credibility. They have influence. They can tap into all the local resources.

Man, I could tell you a thousand ways. I am blessed to be a part of legitimately one of the best associations in the country. And I don’t know that I would have survived the replant that God allowed me to be a part of leading without them. I can tell you a thousand reasons I called them. I mean, they were my on my speed dial for everything from, you know, when we had a potentially litigious situation happen at youth camp.

Man, I, I was way over my skis and had no idea what to do with that. I, and, and literally didn’t know who to call other than my association and go, Hey, here’s this thing that happened at youth camp. I literally don’t even know what step one is. Like, I don’t know how to handle this correctly. and they were able to put me in [00:20:00] touch with like two pastors that had navigated something similar.

with a lawyer that could give me free legal advice with like, and we were able to get through that and get on the other side of that situation. But that’s, that’s one of literally a thousand situations where I was able to put that phone call in and have them come alongside and help me and help my team that I was leading at our replant to make healthier choices, make wise choices to listen to others and learn from others along the way.

Mark Hallock: It’s awesome.

Brandon Moore: Yeah. And I think, you know, along those lines of what are the resources and those kinds of things, you know, associational leaders, whether they lean towards like the strategic side of ministry or more like the pastoral care for the pastors and their association, every association leader is different. But everyone that I’ve met in my ministry, they’re like, their superpower is connection.

Connection to those resources, connection to the right pastor that’s going through, you know, what they’ve gone through before, or [00:21:00] connection to, like, they know the people in each church as well, and so they know, like, you know, you’re talking about something litigious, like, well, hey, here’s a lawyer that’s faithful in another church that can come alongside you, you know, our association may not have a lawyer, you know, that, that, is on retainer or whatever, but we’ve, we’ve got one in a local church, right?

And so, you know, Those associational leaders have the superpower of connection, and I think that’s a huge benefit to pastors.

JimBo Stewart: Hey, here’s one of the things I’d love to tell you, listener, is if you would like an opportunity to hang out with me and Mark Halleck and Brandon Moore, there are two opportunities coming up, in April, at an event called Am I a Replanter? now, this event is for anyone who is new to or considering Any form of renewal work.

This is not just about replanting. This is about church revitalization, church replanting. it’s a noon Friday to noon Saturday opportunity [00:22:00] to come and hear more about church health and strategy and get encouragement, get some questions answered. not only will the three of us be there, there will be some.

pastor’s wives there that have been a part of or are a part of replanting and revitalization, and they’d love to To meet your wife and encourage her and answer her questions It honestly is it’s a quick noon to noon just a blast really really fun event and so and so I think it’s only like 15 bucks and if that 15 bucks is holding you back shoot me a note and i’ll i’ll take care of that 15 bucks But we will be at Southeastern Seminary.

These are both at seminaries. They’re not seminary events just for seminary students, but they are in partnership with seminaries.

Brandon Moore: do

JimBo Stewart: So we’ll be at Southeastern Seminary April 5th and 6th and then we’ll be at New Orleans Seminary, April 12th and 13th. I’ll put some links in the show notes for those events to you cause we’d love to hang out with you.

Hey, before we close, Brandon and Mark, one thing I’d like to ask each of you. Is what is [00:23:00]one thing that we can celebrate with you? Like what’s one thing God is doing in your life and or in your ministry right now that we can We can join in celebration with you because I think that’s one of the other pieces of the value of being around others and in an association and network friendships with other pastors and ministry leaders.

It’s just celebrating with each other

because we’re not in competition. So, so Mark, what’s something going on in your life or ministry that we can celebrate?

Mark Hallock: Man, that’s a great question. I mean, the truth is there’s so much to celebrate. God is so kind. I just think about, yesterday, just off the top of my head, we, replanted a church not too long ago up in the mountains in Colorado, in a small mountain town there. And, They, we just brought in a new pastor and his family to lead this church in this little community.

And man, God’s just moving in power in there. And the community and the church is starting to just experience new hope and growth. And they’re reaching, you know, we’ve got folks who come [00:24:00] live there in the, in the winter time. You know, there’s, just, he was just overjoyed and just sharing stories you know, and that’s one of the things the three of us share is seeing God do great work and forgotten places.

And this little town is not, this isn’t your veil or Breckenridge or, you know, this is just a little community filled with people created in the image of God and this little church that was, Dying is now coming back to life. And so I’m just, I’m just so thrilled by God’s kindness in that. So I’m riding pretty high today off that.

JimBo Stewart: Brandon, what about you? What’s something we can celebrate with you?

Brandon Moore: Yeah, so Lord’s doing some really neat things, just allowing us to be a part of, making a move to hopefully replant the church sometime down the line. And one of the things we Gotten to be a part of what we’ve been in Columbia, Missouri is a church that has, a ton of college students. And as we’ve been talking about this idea of, replanting lately, like the Lord just seems to be like lighten up so many of them that they were like, what in the world is replanting?

Like what, like. What in the world is [00:25:00] renewal? And for, generation, I think a lot of times like gets a rap for maybe being jaded towards the church or those kinds of things, having a lot of people that are done with the church, walking away from the church, like it’s just been really encouraging to see so many get really excited about this idea of replanting and what God can do and turning the church around and seeing.

As you know, Clifton’s book, you know, talks about reclaiming glory, through church renewal and replanting. And so, I’ve just been super encouraged by so many conversations I’m having with them.

JimBo Stewart: Praise God, praise God, man. For both of those things. I I’m so grateful for both of you guys for taking the time to come on

Brandon Moore: Yeah.

JimBo Stewart: with us.

Brandon Moore: Love you, We love you, bro. Thankful for this podcast too. Seriously. I know that God’s used this podcast and all kinds of ways to encourage pastors and leaders. So thanks for your faithfulness.