[00:00:00] JimBo Stewart: Welcome to another episode of the Replant Boot Camp, the podcast for church renewal leaders where we listen, learn, and laugh together with boots on the ground church leaders. I’m your host, Jimbo Stewart. This podcast is sponsored by Church QuickSight by 180 Digital. Getting a website that your visitors and members will love doesn’t have to be hard.

Learn more at churchquicksight. com. Here we are back at the boot camp. Hope you’re ready for the next episode. And man, I cannot tell you how excited I am for the special guest, the reappearance, the return, the second coming of Bob Bickford. Bobby B is back at the boot camp.

[00:00:52] Bob Bickford: bootcamp. Jimbo, it’s awesome to be here, man. Back at the bootcamp.

 I am ready for the next episode. I’ve been ready,

[00:01:00] JimBo Stewart: I’ve been ready, man. Here we are. in your conference room at Mr. A MS of the Nashville Baptist Association. Yes. at a beautiful conference table. this is like, this is a real deal, man. This is fancy

[00:01:11] Bob Bickford: Made by Pastor Steve Durham of Sunset Hills Baptist Church here in Nashville, who is, is going to be my friend and a co woodworker.

We’re going to make some shelves together. So I’m grateful for Steve.

[00:01:22] JimBo Stewart: Heck yeah ma’am. So update is just a little bit, last time you were on here, you were transitioning to away from the replant team into 3 1 3 and there’s been another shift. So yeah, talk to us about that.

[00:01:34] Bob Bickford: Manjimbo, so God plays chess, not checkers.

[00:01:37] JimBo Stewart: This is true.

[00:01:37] Bob Bickford: and so we came to Nashville, With, enthusiasm and excitement about helping churches leverage their space for commercial purposes, but also for community outreach.

And so things were going swimmingly well with three, one, three. but we had a couple of sites that didn’t make, and we had a clog in our funnel and a lot of my. compensation for 2024 was due to, was due to openings are going to be funded by openings. And so those didn’t happen.

And so we found ourselves in a position where we were either going to go full contract or, you know, just be, funded by what I was able to close and sell and bring on board. so living in Nashville is like living in the California of the South. And you can’t do that. Right. and so we just started saying, well, Lord, you moved us here and we were involved in a local church or are involved in a local church.

And the thought of moving again was just catastrophic to us. So we, we just said, well, Lord, what do you want? Well, little known to us, the position of the AMS lead AMS here at the Nashville Baptist Association came open. And so they approached me in January of 2024, but I was not at a position where I knew that the Lord was going to be changing some things for me.

So circumstances changed. I contacted them. I went through a process and interview process and then was installed in June of this year. So there you go. God plays chess. He moved us to Nashville to get us to do something we didn’t expect, but we’re very thankful that we’re here.

[00:03:02] JimBo Stewart: Yeah, I’m super excited to see you in this role. I think you’re going to do an excellent job.

here’s what I would love to know is in this role. So you’ve worked with associations a lot over the years, you’ve served in associational roles, but sitting in this seat in this city. is a different perspective and view for you than you’ve had. So what are some things that you’re seeing from this seat in the world of church health, church renewal, replanting, and et cetera.

[00:03:34] Bob Bickford: Sure, let me give one word of introduction, because when you think of Nashville, most people who are Baptist y. Yeah. Think, oh, well, the EC’s there, Lifeway’s there, ERLC’s there, Tennessee, Baptist Mission Board is there. So surely, there’s a lot of, this is like the heart of the Bible, belt, the, the heart of the buckle, so to speak.

And Jimbo, here’s the reality, the Bible belt, is no longer, we do not have a belt here in Nashville.

[00:04:01] JimBo Stewart: The buckle

[00:04:02] Bob Bickford: buckle is, yeah, the buckle is gone. It is like there’s in seriously because people are moving all from all over the world and all over the U. S. So there’s a misunderstanding that Nashville is this Mecca of Christian influence.

It’s much like a, an East Coast or West Coast city, with Southern values and good sweet tea.

[00:04:18] JimBo Stewart: like so many cities, the Nashville today is not the Nashville of 15, 20 years ago at all.

[00:04:25] Bob Bickford: We’ve got 100 people moving here every single day. and so the economy is great. the housing market is awful in terms of trying to buy a house.

but people are really coming here with a lot of hopes and dreams and expectations, which will kind of segue nicely to the next point. We’re finding that people are moving here hoping they’re going to find the answer to whatever it is they’re looking for in their twenties and thirties, maybe in the forties.

And what we know as Christ followers is we’re not going to find the it for us until we found our security and our comfort in Christ. Right. And, and salvation in Christ. So Jimbo, one of the first things I would say about doing ministry here in Nashville, go

It’s evident that our churches are asking critical questions about reaching adults for Christ.

We have conversion growth that follows generational growth. Like, you know, you have babies born, they become elementary kids, they become youth, they accept Christ, and there’s so much that needs to be done to reach kids under 18 because it’s so critical to do that. But Jimbo, most of the people that are moving here are not Kids, they’re adults, right?

Now kids are coming with them, but what we’re finding is that churches that are thriving are ones that are actually reaching adults. So we didn’t see the gospel exploding. Who did you reach? Well, you reached adults and thereby from reaching adults, you would reach entire households.

So we’re really focusing this next year on how do we have gospel advance

among adults.

[00:05:50] JimBo Stewart: Church renewal in general is not only how do we pass it generationally through the houses that already exist within our tribe but It’s no longer the cultural pool that it used to be.

And so what does it look like to engage young adults in their 20s and their 30s, in today’s culture? And I think Nashville becomes, you know, a view of that for a lot of what the South is either already headed towards or getting close to, you know, like you say, Nashville is probably one of those South cities that’s maybe a little bit further in the cultural advancement of those things than a lot of the rest of the South.

And so, what else are you noticing from this chair, from this perspective?

[00:06:33] Bob Bickford: Yeah, so, man, at the AMS, in the AMS role, and some of my AMS colleagues, shout out to Walker Armstrong, Bob Baumgartner, Johnny Rombo, and Todd Robertson, Josh Ellis, all those guys.

one of the things we get lot is people who say, Man, I feel called to your city and I want to plant a church. I want to come and pastor.

[00:06:53] JimBo Stewart: city.

[00:06:53] Bob Bickford: is good

surely a worship pastor is easy to find. Well, we are flush with guys who can move. They’re all over the map. I can find you the Elton John of, worship music. I can find, the Mumford and sons. I can find the, Maverick city. I mean, on and on and on. Like we got variety here. so you will not lack for good musicians and somebody who can lead worship.

[00:07:18] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

[00:07:19] Bob Bickford: However, nationwide, there are fewer guys that are entering, the ministry. We know it, right? And there’s never been more guys that are needed, right? As our Pastors get older and as they retire, we’ve got to find guys to move to the city. So I’m thankful that people want to move to the city, but here’s the challenge in a housing environment and in a commercial real estate environment.

we can have all the church planters we want, but where are they going to plant that church? Where’s that church going to spring up? Where are they going to meet the traditional, you know, let’s get a core group and let’s start a church plant and then let’s get a facility at Age three, four or five Jimbo.

We can’t do that here in Nashville. I don’t think in less than 10 years, unless that church plant partners with an existing church in decline that has a facility that is ready and waiting for a new congregation to move in. And so Jimbo, the hardest thing for me right now is to getting the congregation that is on the backside of its life cycle to be willing to partner with a congregation that is moving towards the strength of its life cycle.

[00:08:27] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

[00:08:27] Bob Bickford: If you talk about that, it was kind of a chess match. God placed me here, the guy that’s done replanting for, you know, last 10 years or so. it’s a great spot for me to be in terms of effective work that’s needed here for the kingdom.

[00:08:39] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

it sounds like it’s right for replanting,

[00:08:41] Bob Bickford: for replanting opportunities

[00:08:43] JimBo Stewart: church plants merging or partnering at some level. where have you seen any foothold or gained any ground or seen movement in that happening already in Nashville?

[00:08:56] Bob Bickford: we have a number of churches that have partnered together. So there’s, a lot of campusing kinds of churches, multi site, churches that have a network feel, but not maybe an autonomy that you Calvary family of churches.

we have some that are good at fostering for a season and then re releasing to autonomy. what we have not seen would be the partnership replant where, a lot of it were one church that’s on its up cycle and a church that’s on its down cycle partner together. We’ve seen few of those. I mean, one of the first ones Jimbo before the replant team really got it start was up the street from here at Eastland Baptist church, right?

We’ve both been in The facility. That’s where 3 1 3 has a main, campus or a main, workspace, beautiful location. And so I was brought down here in 2015 to do some consulting that was one of the first ones that hit the city. it was amazing. So we’re seeing that, take place, but we just need to see more and more of that.

We’ve got a hundred and, 47, almost 150 churches in our association, and 50 to 80% of them are in need of renewal.

[00:10:00] JimBo Stewart: So you’ve been in the position of coaching associational leaders and now you’ve stepped into that lead role.

what’s changed in your perspective? Now that you’ve sat in this seat, is there anything that you have been like, oh man, this is different than I thought it was gonna be. This is a different game.

[00:10:17] Bob Bickford: Yeah. The, the, associational leader, and I was talking with a bum learner about this. when you work for state convention or national entity, you’re not as concerned about revenue because revenue is just kind of an afterthought associations. And most people don’t think this or know this, especially the young planters or replanters that don’t have a strong SBC background.

Associations are funded by. associational churches. We don’t get cooperative program dollars. We don’t get, state dollars per se. Now, our state does contribute some towards associations through what’s called a golden offering. and so we get some of our revenue comes from that, which we’re super grateful for.

But, there’s a challenge for revenue as churches think about it. If 80 percent of your churches are in decline, that’s going to impact your revenue. If churches are not happy about what’s happening at the SBC, they pull out of the SBC. Well, they haven’t nuanced the relationship to the national convention and the state convention and the local association.

Right. And so there’s some challenges in that regard in terms of just sheer strategy and implementation, Jimbo. If anything, it’s affirmed the stuff that we did at the replant team for a long time and stuff that’s continuing to go on. It was the right resources at the right time because they were really developed in the field.

And so they rolled up in the field. what I would say is the strategies are right. the challenge is, and the difference is as an associational leader, you are in the seat, as an executive of a very complex and challenging, organization that is supposed to church plant.

renewal, do leader equipping, do consulting, help, with missional strategy. I mean, all of those things are so divergent, right? That you are doing a variety of things. And then I haven’t even mentioned the administrative, skills that you need to run in some instances, a multimillion dollar organization.

[00:12:14] JimBo Stewart: What advice would you give to somebody else starting out? Fresh in a, yes, you are a new AMS, but your new AMS that’s been steeped in the context of this work for a long time. So you have a unique perspective, but let’s say there’s a guy stepping into a new role somewhere. He doesn’t have that experience that you do laying as a foundation for him.

What advice would you give to somebody stepping into that?

[00:12:39] Bob Bickford: would you give to somebody stepping into that? the success of your churches in advancing the gospel in their local context. that’s your job. And so you are a networker, you are an encourager, you are a sounding board, you are a strategist. and really I think the genius of the replant team when Clifton was, forming it was saying, look, We’re not experts.

we are platform folks in the sense that we platform the local leaders who are getting it done. Right? We operate in the space of a national entity that gets to go a lot of different places and hear about a lot of great things. And so we point and we cheerlead and we platform, not ourselves, but we platform the work of God as it’s done through local people.

And so I think you do the same thing at the associational level. You would be surprised that most churches, don’t really know what’s happening in other churches across the city. They just don’t. Right? Well, why? Man, they’re focused on. We got to get children’s workers or we’ve got to deal with this conflict or we’ve got to take care of this building issue or a pastor’s like, man, I got to preach sermons and go to my kid’s soccer games and all these kinds of And so it’s our, our job to come along the side of the church and serve them. And we’re going to have our annual meeting coming up in a couple of weeks. And that’s one of the things I’m, I’m really going to hit loud and clear is like, we are here to serve you to, as you seek to advance the gospel in your local context, how can we help you?

[00:14:16] JimBo Stewart: you

[00:14:17] Bob Bickford: That’s what I’m gonna, I’m not asking them to sign up to come to anything. I’m not, I’m just saying, we’re here to serve you. You let us know how we’re here. We can serve you best.

[00:14:25] JimBo Stewart: What’s the same value that you led with us in the replant team of valuing the field, listening to the field and letting that lead us where we go?

flip the question a little bit for the person listening that has maybe tried to be involved in their association or isn’t very involved and they’re trying to, they’re, they’re trying to grasp. Yeah, I get that. And if an association is good and it’s strategic, then yes, it’s valuable for me, but I don’t know if mine is super valuable or if I want to be super involved.

Good. What, what, what is it? So yes, the association is there to serve the church, but for the pastor listening to this, what is his role in his association and how, what does it mean for him to be a good member of that association?

[00:15:07] Bob Bickford: Yeah, look, beyond your church to what God is doing in your immediate area. So we have, 2, 500 plus square miles that, you know, nine counties, 2, 500 square miles, almost 150 churches.

That’s a lot of territory. What we’re doing is we’re breaking our association down into zones, regional zones. And so what I would say is pastor, put your address of your church in Google maps. And then what I would say is do that, a thing where you can search nearby and then put in church.

And then look at the three to five closest churches near you. And then what I would say is if you really want to make a difference, kingdom wise, not just in your local church, get those five guys together and ask the following questions. Where is God at work around us? What is he calling us to do to advance the gospel collectively?

How can we support each other in that? And do any one of us need assistance or help? So that’s the plan that we’re launching in this next year. We’re regionalizing. We’ve got six regions that we’re developing here, in our association. Rick Curtis and Mike Carlisle did a great podcast on this on the NAMM, AMS Excellence Podcast.

It was a fantastic podcast. But we’re getting them together and then we’re having them ask those questions. That’s it. We’re saying, look, we’re not asking you to go do our thing. We’re just saying, get together in your immediate context and ask those questions. And then we’re going to fund you and resource you to follow God’s leadership and the Spirit’s leadership to do that.

as we see that happen, I think that is replicable in any context, rural, county seat, urban. And then here’s what I also know. I’ve got pastors who are struggling, pastors who are discouraged, pastors who are leaving, pastors who get fired. if the guys around them know what’s going on, they’re likely going to be able to support them in ways that I can’t.

[00:16:58] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

[00:17:00] Bob Bickford: because of all those things that I mentioned that are under the umbrella of associational leaders, if they’re connected with a few guys that are close by, they’re going to have a better chance of accessing immediate support. I’ll be there. but it’s going to take a little while. And so we’ve developed, a strategy that has a leader who gathers the people, a co leader who basically is the operator who helps keep things going.

And then a care leader who is responsible for care in their immediate zone. And Jimbo, I’m happy to report Frank Lewis, one of the good friends that we have in the replant world. Frank Luce is going to be our care leader for one of our zones. And I was unveiling the, yeah, I was unveiling thisplan and he goes, Jimbo, we were having breakfast last week and he goes, can I be the care leader?

I didn’t even have to ask him, right? I didn’t even have to ask him. Like he just said, can I be the care leader? And I was like, Frank, I designed this plan. Position in our zones with your name and face and ministry in mind. Like I totally drafted and crafted this role because I know you. And so for me, Jimbo, what I would say is that was a huge affirmation that this is the right thing to do right here, right now.

And I would say every time I unveil that, that regionalization, that zone strategy, every time I talk about that, pastors say this, I’m in. Yeah, I’m in. What do you need? I’m in. Can I be a part of that?

[00:18:21] JimBo Stewart: Yeah, that’s good. and I like that as a whole, that’s going to serve your whole association, but it also does give some actionable next steps for the guy listening to this. That’s going, what can I do? Well, you can’t fix your whole association, but you could pick three to four other churches and figure out how you guys get to know each other, serve each other, care for each other, support each other, and then see if you can’t.

Get that model to catch fire a little bit in your association and see how that strengthens because for sure that’s going to strengthen what we’re doing when we move from a competitive mindset to a collaborative and supportive mindset. It’s a kingdom mindset that helps so much more than just living in our own little silo.

I know that part of your role also is when churches are in need of help, you’re doing consulting, you’re stepping in and what, what are you, as you’ve engaged as a consultant with churches in your association, how has that been different than when you were doing it from a national perspective and what are some things that you have seen?

As highlights that have become really important to you in that.

[00:19:26] Bob Bickford: Yeah, I think the difference for us, you know, we did the AMS training for seven years or so, I think, and, again, it was, it was a boots on the ground strategy from the grassroots. And so I think it’s, it’s held, it’s shown that it, it’s the right thing to do. It’s the right way to approach. And again, it’s a process that everybody tweaks for their context.

So, I think for me, the volume that we have. experience in terms of covenant consultations. And I’ve only been here two months really. And, the, we’ve got four active covenant consultations. And, and so it’s needed. Right. And so I think the difference is the volume in the execution and the need to develop a team now.

So I came in the association, had us, had it have a team in the past, but it’s not active right now. So I’m hardly trying to build a team. And so what I would say to the AMS leader or the pastor who cares about revitalization and church renewal, replanting, if you’re the pastor and you want to see renewal serve on the team, right, go to the training.

if you’re the AMS. Build a process and build a team. Like the good thing is I didn’t have to come in here and go, what am I going to do? Right. We already had a process. We just imported it. I think one of the nuances is this, that the training, as I look back on it was very much left brain. It was, here are the trend lines here, the stats, here’s your demographic context.

And the assumption is that there would be a baseline level of spiritual maturity that would say, well, absolutely. We’ve got to do something. The majority of churches don’t care about any of that, right? They don’t. What they care about is what’s going to happen to our building. What’s our name going to be?

Susie still be able to be the secretary. And what about old Paul who leads the music? What’s going to happen to him? Those are all the things they care about. Meanwhile, the community stays unreached, the buildings crumbling, et cetera. Right. And so one of the things that, I did a couple years ago, I did a talk at the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary AMS conference, and I think you had turned me on to this book called, The Other Half of Church.

fan.

Yeah, so we did a podcast on it, I

[00:21:31] JimBo Stewart: yeah, we’ve got one in there somewhere.

[00:21:33] Bob Bickford: I think one of the things that I’m realizing is as a left brained guy.

[00:21:39] JimBo Stewart:

[00:21:39] Bob Bickford: I mean everything I’ve talked about in this podcast is analysis and strategy, right?

We have to slow down and we have to engage the other half of somebody’s mind and thinking and heart to help them and ask and answer questions about what does God want for this church.

[00:21:56] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

[00:21:57] Bob Bickford: And we’ve got to help them discover it by leading them through into scripture.

[00:22:02] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

[00:22:03] Bob Bickford: What

did, what did Jesus say the church’s mission was? Are we doing that? Who did Jesus say we are supposed to be as Christ followers? Are we being that? What did Jesus say about the people around us? And how does he view And so we’ve got to take them to scripture. We’ve got to slow down. And so I’m putting that at the front of the process, which we’re doing Johnny Rambo’s Jesus story project.

We’re doing a church memories workshop and top trend lines, etc. we’re doing 40 days of prayer, you know, Brandon, Brandon Moores, from the resound network. we’re doing reclaiming glory and flickering lamps and we’re doing all that as the front load. Right. And we’re tweaking that. Some, we’re not gonna do all of that, but we’re doing some of that and we’re, we’re putting together a process using the Johnny Rambo funnel graph that we’re walking them through a spiritual process and we’re, we are recruiting and training transitional interim pastors who will be our team and our boots on the ground.

Right. And so hand in, hand in glove with those guys, with a process that’s both right brain and left brain. And then the power of prayer behind it is.

is the way we’re going to attack this, right? So, the other thing I have a burden about and haven’t done yet is I’ve got to have, just like when we were replanters, we had external prayer partners.

I’ve got to have folks who care about the work of God in Nashville that will say, put me on a list. And when you’re going into a meeting and you need me to pray, operate, because here’s what I’m encountering. the same bullies and scapegoats and gatekeepers and, roadblocks, all those people, I just am now interfacing with a whole lot more of them.

there, there’s some, you know, Jesus said only by prayer, you know, he’s talking about the demons, you know, Jimbo only by the power of God. Will some of these people change their perspective as the building crumbles around him in the community goes unreached and only as he, as the Lord moves them either in their heart or moves them out of the church or moves them from earth to heaven, are we going to see Changes in one of my favorite replant verses is precious in the side of the Lord is the death of his saints.

And I just keep praying that Lord, the Lord will make people precious.

[00:24:22] JimBo Stewart: It’s man, that is the hardest piece is the, that spiritual change piece. Like before we can get to anything else, we gotta get to that. There’s gotta be a change of heart.

Man,

this has been good. For people that want to continue to follow what you’re doing and insights from you, you’ve got a new fancy website, cranking out some blogs and some good resources, bobbickford.

com. So we’ll put a link to that in the show notes as well. Although that’s pretty easy to remember

[00:24:50] Bob Bickford: should be pretty easy.

[00:24:54] JimBo Stewart: There’s some good stuff on there already and so I’d encourage you to check that out and I appreciate you coming by. We’ll definitely have to bring you back at least for the LSU

[00:25:03] Bob Bickford: Arkansas. Oh, Hey, we got to do that. one of our staff members is an LSU guy.

[00:25:08] JimBo Stewart: we chatted in the hallway

[00:25:09] Bob Bickford: one LS, I have two LSU guys in my life. One close in close proximity and Jimbo. The hog hat is in my

[00:25:15] JimBo Stewart: Oh, I saw it. So we’ll have to make sure I come back around that time.

[00:25:18] Bob Bickford: Awesome.

[00:25:19] JimBo Stewart: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Replant Boot Camp Podcast, where listening to the field will lead you to the future. The Replant Boot Camp Podcast is brought to you by Church QuickSight by 180 Digital. With Church QuickSight, you’ll get a beautiful, customized website with all the features you need to help your church grow.

A helpful project manager to make sure everything is just how you want it. And the legendary 180Digital hosting and support to keep things running great. 180Digital is a team of design development and marketing experts who know and love the local church. So go to ChurchQuickSight. com to learn more and get started.