Bob Bickford: I

know the doms, director of missions for those of our boot campers who are not quite sure what a d OM or an AMS is.

Associational missional, strateg. , these are individuals who work at the local city level to, help churches fulfill their mission.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

Bob Bickford: general. So, so we’ve been doing this event for six years and we started it at, the headquarters in Alpharetta. Uh, cuz Jimbo, you and I do work for the North

JimBo Stewart: American

Mission

We do, we work for the North Amer, north

American Mission Board Time gig.

Yeah.

Bob Bickford: Uh, this podcast was a hobby

JimBo Stewart: we don’t make, we lose money on this

Bob Bickford: we do man. Like I. I think I looked at my Venmo receipts from paying for it, uh, some of the technology the other day at this. But, yeah, we we’re losing money. So send money. Send money. Help

[00:01:00] us out.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

And we’ve got one of our favorite AM SS Walker Armstrong, the man who hails from the land

of

crisp cream.

Donuts

Bob Bickford: and tobacco

JimBo Stewart: product. Tobacco

Walker Armstrong: products.

Yes. And smokeless ones

too.

JimBo Stewart: Texas P

Hot

Walker Armstrong: sauce. That’s right. Garner

Foods.

JimBo Stewart: There All right. So we got Walker here with US Walker. Welcome

back

to the

boot.

Walker Armstrong: It’s

great to be,

JimBo Stewart: Hey, you recently retired, so you’re, now, you’re not even, you’re an

old

timer

now.

Walker Armstrong: Yeah. Almost retired. Uh, almost retired. Yeah. My search team is hot on the trail. Well some folks and, and they gave me the heads up that probably end

of March

they had End

of March.

Somebody to present. Yeah.

Okay. Well, Congratulations.

Thank you.

you

sent us

some things that you’ve been writing, uh, on your way out.

You’re going out big and I mean, you went out changing the name

of

your association, you went [00:02:00] out writing some

Bob Bickford: stuff about

Walker Armstrong: discipleship and we want to talk to you about that. On the bootcamp, one of the things we talk about often is just the, how central discipleship is to church replanting

and revitalization, because ultimately it’s a spiritual

work and it matters far more the spiritual health of the people than the systematic health

of

the organization.

Mm-hmm. , but one of the things you sent us is you talk about some of.

challenges for leading a disciple making movement, and I think most of our listeners would want a disciple making movement in their church. Well, you know, when [00:03:00] you think about, uh, not just merely discipleship, but a disciple making movement, you’re obviously, postulating this idea that you even moved beyond your church. that you wanna see something not only, vitalize or revitalize your church, and, and get it in alignment with God’s mission, but you also wanna see something go beyond your church. And in order to do that, pastors have to get outta the way, and one of the ways they have to get outta the way is to say, it’s not all about me.

Uh, I’ve gotta train leaders that train leaders, that train leaders, that disciple people, and that ultimately, , I would hope. It’s our expectation that we think of every member being a disciple and making disciples. but for that to happen, a pastor’s gotta look beyond themselves, bring in more gifted leaders than themselves in some ways.

And that’s hard to do, especially for the average size Southern Baptist Church, which, uh, right now I think it’s around 80 on a Sunday morning. typically those pastors, [00:04:00] have a number of roles, because. size of their church. But it’s very important to think beyond yourself, to even, get the ball moving.

Bob Bickford: Walker, one of the things that a disciple has to do is actually follow Jesus, right? If we’re talking about Christian

discipleship, and, seems to me there’s a verse Luke 9 23 that says, we gotta do something if we’re gonna follow Jesus.

And that’s died itself. And you, you mentioned that’s a hard thing for us

in

the church

and

in life

in

JimBo Stewart: right?

Yeah. So the second challenge you mentioned is

spiritual

consumerism.

Walker Armstrong: Mm-hmm. .

Yeah. I mean, so spiritual consumerism. Is that the church Is there. To scratch an itch for attendees and members. The church is there, to make people comfortable. The church is there, to answer all their questions about all the issues in their lives.

And while the Bible is imminently practical, It’s in, in a sense, it challenges our very core beliefs about who we are and who we believe God is [00:05:00] and who we believe other people are. And spiritual consumerism is really about trying to market or trying to pinpoint, and in some cases even manipulate people so that if you meet a need, they give you loyalty.

Mm-hmm.

JimBo Stewart: what

do you think motivates the leadership of the church?

It

seems like.

For my observations, the idea of consumerism is almost like this seductive magnetic pool for the leadership. Like

it’s just

easier to appeal to the istic mentality than it is

actually

to dig

in

to

discipleship. Why

is

that?

Walker Armstrong: Well, I mean, you know, Bob just mentioned it. discipleship is about transformation, about ongoing transformation. and transformation requires that you take a hard look at.

and that means that you have to die to things that you formally or maybe currently, consider to be essential, essential to your life.

And so, it’s not a big deal to attend, a church service twice a month. but it’s [00:06:00] a bigger deal to be on mission with God and to surrender your life to God daily, so that you can be in sync with his will. And so,

spiritual consumerism, easy

believism, things like that.

Prosperity Gospel is all about, getting people to, appreciate what you

do

at a very superficial level,

so that you can obtain funding, support, et

cetera.

Bob Bickford: Walker you

mentioned,

 in, in

the material you sent us, that sometimes the way

we structure.

Our church, the way we do church together, the stuff that we’re doing leads to a level of a, a lot of activity. And I think you used the word organizational complexity, right? So does that mean

we are

doing stuff that is really not producing disciples all the time, or we’re doing too mu too many things or we’re not doing the right things?

Like how would you unpack

that

for us?

Walker Armstrong: that’s a, that’s a great question, Bob. I think the [00:07:00] simplest, and in a way, clearest definition I heard of a disciple is someone who’s growing

in

christlikeness. Hmm.

And so there are many things

you

can

do

to do that. not picking on one particular program or one or one particular organizational structure, but what happens is, we add ministries on top of other ministries over

time,

and then years later we don’t even remember

why

JimBo Stewart: they.

Walker Armstrong: there.

Hmm. man, all of us in the room know that when it comes to replant or revitalization, you gotta kill some sacred

cows.

JimBo Stewart: And,

Walker Armstrong: the people that defend that don’t even know why that was started

in

JimBo Stewart: first

Walker Armstrong: place.

so I think that complexity is all about, you know, adding layers of organizational struggle without even really understanding the purpose behind it.

And the big alignment question is how does this help us make disciples? Mm-hmm.

JimBo Stewart: When

I think about programs like that, one of the things I think about is, at our church that God

allowed

me

to

be

a

part of replanting.

on Sunday [00:08:00] nights they continued to do,

RAs

and

GA’s

and there was like one kid coming for a whole RA and GA program.

And

so

we

knew

we

had

to

change something and so we, we adjusted the way that we handle children’s. But

I

also recognize that there are some things we lost with that, missions education

and,

praying for missionaries

and

some things

like that.

And so

how

do we evaluate,

how do we, how does the re planter look at all the programs going and evaluate where are we in organizational complexity and where do we need to change some things in order to make sure we’re actually helping people become more like

Jesus?

Walker Armstrong: I just thought about when you had that question. Jimbo is, I was an interim in a church in a, in a rural area of North Carolina. And a friend of mine who worked association put me in the midst of these people, and I, I didn’t know why I was what I was doing there. And so I met with a search team in the Deacons at a Wendy’s

one

Sunday

[00:09:00] night.

Did

you

get a frost? Man, I got fries, I got chili, and I got a cheeseburger if I remember correctly. And, uh, so I, if that was my last meeting with them, they were paying. So,

you

know,

I, I,

doubled

up

That’s just how I roll. I can’t help it, you know, if you’re gonna pay for my

food,

you’re

gonna

pay

Absolutely.

you’re

not

hungry,

you

just,

yeah, no, I’m piling

on. It’s a go box you know. Wow. Yeah. Walker spent $24

at Wendy’s.

How did he do it? Well, that’s

impressive. Yeah,

JimBo Stewart: yeah. so,

Bob Bickford: not

today though,

JimBo Stewart: man. You

could

Walker Armstrong: spin,

you

could

drop

24

JimBo Stewart: Look, when I when

I was in

college, one

of the

first

gifts

that my wife

gave me

was

she

iron on handmade

a

Wendy’s T-shirt.

Oh wow.

Because as

a poor college student, I would walk to the Wendy’s by our college

and

get a

junior bacon cheeseburger

for a

dollar and it just would

make my

day that I

could

have

a

bacon cheeseburger

for a dollar.

Walker Armstrong: Exactly. So these, these people were meeting and I said, uh, do you have a living will for the church?

They said, what are you talking about? I said, well, do you have a living will for. And they said, yeah, so what do you have a living will [00:10:00] for the church? What it means? So, so if this church goes under, what are you gonna do with the property? And that just startled them.

because they were heading fast towards that.

And I said, if you call me as your interim or transition pastor, here’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna strip everything away except

the

essentials. ,

that’s what I need to

do. Wow.

And so we’re not gonna do, Wu and, Babon Mission and Bab men because everybody in that small church was on like 16 different committees.

Yeah. and 16 committees. Yeah. Yeah. And so you say, okay, let’s do Sunday school. Let’s do worship. I’ll do a discipleship training thing on Sunday night and Wednesday we’re just gonna eat

together.

That’s all we’re we’re gonna shut down all

the

committees.

And I said, if

you don’t

wanna

do

that,

don’t

hire

me.

Mm-hmm. .

And so they did it. And the church began to slowly thaw

out,

and, reengage. and so

I think with organizational complexity and programmatic ossification, things like that, you have to say, if we really asked ourselves [00:11:00] and we’re serious, How does this directly impact making disciples?

If it really doesn’t, you know, do we have, should

get

rid

of

it.

Bob Bickford: That’s so good. I mean, we can hang on to things and keep, and I’m, I’m fearful that I’m doing this in my house walker. There’s junk in my house. I need to get rid.

I’m just

hanging onto it,

JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

Walker Armstrong: For

JimBo Stewart: $5,000,

Bob Bickford: Bob, I

can

come

help

you

That’s a

fair price,

man.

That’s a lot.

I don’t have that

much

jump, man. Come on

Anna.

Wendy’s

meal

Walker Armstrong: Anna Wendy’s. Yeah. Yeah.

Bob Bickford: At

least one.

So you mentioned something that, is,

was

interesting to me

when you said

this

term

and

you

said

this was

a

barrier. , for discipleship. And you even said the, the word sticky wicked, which I like that word.

I

like

that

phrase. I don’t

hear that often.

But

you

said

one of the,

the challenges

for

a church pursuing a discipling culture is theistic pragmatism. can

you

unpack

that

for

us?

Walker Armstrong: Well, I mean, a lot of people, a lot, some people have written about this already, [00:12:00] you know, as comparison to the true gospel, right? That Theistic pragmatism in his essence is about, that God

is

here

to make your

life.

So here are the seven steps to have a better marriage. Here are the 13

steps to be a

better parent.

And, and so that’s a gradual drift

away

from

the

gospel.

instead of, Jesus Christ came, he lived a perfect life. He died on the cross, for your behalf. He rose again. He sits in the right hand of the Father.

He’s come again, and this is all about

his.

and

how

it changes you and how then you get to participate in something

that’s bigger than

yourself.

Theistic pragmatism really fits into spiritual consumerism too, in that, that they’re kind of hand in glove. That one of the ways you feed, spiritual consumerism is by a theistic pragmatic model of how you preach

and how you

do

ministry.

Mm-hmm.

And it’s all about helping people get

fixed in the short

term.

now obviously

the Bible.

Multitudinous

[00:13:00] counsel on, you know how God can touch every single area of your life. Right. But it’s, it’s not at the core of our faith. The gospel’s

at the core

of

our

faith.

Yeah.

And so when it comes to disciple making, what happens is, we begin to develop this idea that disciples are people that are good at this and good at that, instead of God’s

safe sinner,

And so if you’re a disciple, you’re a safe sinner and you’re in progress. Yeah. And if your discipleship strategy doesn’t fit that in there, then it’s, you know, men’s ministry, I love men’s ministries, but they, they become kind of theistic pragmatism, you know, how can you love your wife better?

Well, that’s very important,

but

what

about

the

gospel?

Yeah.

How

does

the gospel

affect

the way

you

look

at

Bob Bickford: Right. Well,

so

it’s

a MEC centered,

discipleship

versus

Walker Armstrong: Jesus

Bob Bickford: discipleship.

Walker Armstrong: That’s right.

JimBo Stewart: Well,

and there’s,

there’s

no

power of the gospel.

I

I heard

somebody say one

time,

if,

your

sermon

can

make sense

without

the death,

burial

and resurrection

of

Jesus

Christ

than it

wasn’t

a

[00:14:00] sermon,

it

was

a

TED

talk.

Walker Armstrong: Yeah.

Great way to put it. I never thought, but that’s a great way, you know, and some, some of our guys do 45 minute Ted talks, at least they could take a hint that they, that most Ted talks are 18 minutes, but our guys do 45 minute Ted talks and

you, and

you

leave.

They’re going

like,

what

did

I just

JimBo Stewart: hear?

Yeah,

if

you’re gonna talk for 45

minutes,

I

mean,

you,

you

got

plenty of

time to

bring the

gospel

Walker Armstrong: in, man. I

wish.

JimBo Stewart: I would

Walker Armstrong: would hope

so.

JimBo Stewart: hope so.

Walker Armstrong: so.

JimBo Stewart: One of

the

other,

uh,

the

final

obstacle, you

mentioned,

the

obstacle.

And

decide making

movement

is

pragmatic ossification.

Woo.

Uh,

man,

that’s a,

that’s

a,

i

I

didn’t

know

the

had

word’s

Bob Bickford: that

big

in

North

Carolina.

Come

on,

man.

Well,

JimBo Stewart: Well,

Walker

was, he

was,

a business consultant.

Yeah, so this is this, this feels

like this

is

from

a science

lab

ossification.

Walker Armstrong: Well, well, you know,

I’m getting older, right. And, uh, I have ossification happening all

over my

body,

and I’m sad to say, and what it [00:15:00] means is I’m stiffer and you know, I move slower.

I think slower. And it’s because my body is aging. And so with churches, what happens oftentimes, at least in my experience, is that they see this in a church down the

road

that’s

doing divorce

care.

Yeah.

Or we’re

gonna

do

divorce.

Okay. Yeah.

And it’s like they see this church doing experience in God.

Well, we’re

gonna do

experience in God

and there’s no semblance of a moving strategy a, a cogent

strategy.

It’s

more

like grab bag.

Yep. You know? Yep. And so with prog, uh, programmatic ossification, what happens

is

that these programs. Or these ministries become an

end

in

themselves

and

we

don’t

even

know

it.

Yeah.

Um, but then people aren’t fired up about anymore. You know, you just have a handful of people that are doing it.

I

can mention,

you know, a very, uh, old

strategy,

but

I’m

not

gonna

name

it,

uh,

because I

already [00:16:00]

Bob Bickford: a

Walker Armstrong: contract

outta my

life

Bob Bickford: right

now,

we’re

Walker Armstrong: for doing stuff like

this. we don’t

need

this

podcast

canceled

Yeah. No, but here’s what I’ll say is that anything,

anything that

starts

out

good

can

get

stale.

Yeah.

You know? And

so

it’s

more

like,

are, are we willing, you know, to, to hold things loosely and saying,

Hey, God

really used

that for

a period

of time

in

our

church.

Mm-hmm.

but we

need to move

on.

The people that don’t wanna move on are clinging to something that’s stale and rust. .

Uh,

and

does it have

the

impact?

It

used

to,

for

me, that’s

youth

locking. Oh

man. Oh

Bob Bickford: man.

That

took

eight

years off

my

life.

expense.

For

every

JimBo Stewart: lock in

you

losing

Walker Armstrong: year life.

Yeah,

he absolutely did. I know, I used to think about, you know, I was at a huge church and I, and I did one with 88, junior high students one time and we took ’em to like, to the Y M C A and

to

bowling and

movies and

ate junk food.

And I brought this friend, mark. Uh, uh, along with me and, and he said, I, I’m kind of interested in youth minister. Said, well, come on, jump into [00:17:00] this mark. And at the end of the, when Roland when morning rolled around, he is like, I

JimBo Stewart: don’t know, Walker.

Yeah. I

dunno about

this ministry

It’s not for me.

not for me.

Hey, I lied.

There was a, there was a six obstacle that you list to us. Uh, it says A six obstacle difficulty in leading a disciple making movement is

a truncated

vision

because disciple making is a person

by person.

Enterprise. Many leaders. Feel that it will be too small or move too slowly to make a significant difference.

Talk to us about how a, what is a truncated vision and

how

does

that

get

in

the

way

of

a

disciple

making

Walker Armstrong: movement?

Well, I think all these things, and, and you probably can see they’re all interrelated. Yeah. They’re connected, by truncated vision is

that,

the Bible says don’t despise

the day of small things,

right?

Mm-hmm. , so,

I mean,

the greatest movement ever known a man was a

movement that

Jesus has initiated. And when the spirit came

at Pentecost,

there

were

120

people

there.

There

wasn’t 6,000. There were, there was 120 people. And the spirit fell

on

every

one

of

those

[00:18:00] individuals, and they were empowered to speak languages.

They had not learned

to proclaim

the gospel. And then Peter Batted cleanup and just said, let me explain to

you

what

this

going,

what’s

going

on.

You

know?

Yeah.

And

so, so I, I think that truncated vision

in this

case is, , uh, in regards to disciple making

is

that

Well,

I’ve

gotta

have

something

big

Hmm.

For

it

to work.

Yeah. And it’s, since

I can’t

do

anything big, I’m

not gonna

do

it at

all.

Instead

of saying,

could

you

disciple

three guys

this

year

with having them make the commitment that each of them

over

the

next

year,

it would

disciple Yeah.

And

so that’s slow growth, right? That’s, that’s not

dramatic.

But you know, the power, of exponential, exponential multiplication is man, you know, by the time

you hear

like,

hit like

you’re

15,

you

know,

you’re

reaching thousands.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um,

so. .

I

just think

truncated vision is case, is that we reduce discipleship to a [00:19:00] program, we reduce it, you know, to, to something only big churches

with big staffs

can do

and

it

just

doesn’t

fit

the

book

of Acts,

for example.

Bob Bickford: Yeah.

Most ministry

of Jesus.

Yeah.

Right. I mean, most relation,

most

discipleship

is

all about relationship. Amen.

And

in con yeah, in the context

of

in

real

Walker Armstrong: life.

Mm-hmm.

Bob Bickford: doing

life together, talking about what’s going on in your life and, and just meeting to talk over God’s

word.

Right.

So

it’s, um,

I

mean,

I, I

think

in my life

I can think of one discipleship setting where we used a resource that was the springboard for great conversation and study, and that was experiencing God Yeah.

Right. And, and I met with older guys and, and

we do that,

I, I think of a lot of dec youth discipleship things where we got together and we filled in

the

blanks, but

then

we just,

you

know, went, ran around, did stupid stuff afterwards. Right. So that

was

in discipleship.

That was like

hanging

out

Walker Armstrong: buy time

just to

get a pizza.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

But you know, when I got saved, I got saved. 18, I was raised in church. I

didn’t really

[00:20:00] understand the

personal implications of

the gospel.

and I went to this bible study that this pharmacist in town in Ashburn, North Carolina, named Stan Haywood, who’s in heaven now. Uh, he led this milk to meat.

Of navigators and we’re just opening up the Bible, talking and hanging out. And so I got saved along with two of my best friends.

And

then we, Friday night we weren’t partying, partying

any

longer.

We

didn’t

know

what

to

do.

So

we went

by

Stan’s pharmacy

and we’d sit there for like an hour. He had waited on customers and we said, what

JimBo Stewart: about

this?

Walker Armstrong: And

he

had opened up

the

Bible

and start

talking

to

us

about

those

things.

Yeah.

And for that whole summer, after three of us got saved, that’s what we did almost every Friday night

was

a good

bug stand.

JimBo Stewart: Uh,

but

I

mean,

that’s life

on.

Bob Bickford: life.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah, I was talking with a pastor recently

of

a small

rural church, six to 10 people attending on

Sunday

morning. He’s working 50 hours a week

at his

secular job, and his worship leader just got an argument with the leader

of

their

women’s

missions ministry and, and, and [00:21:00] the worship leader is, is gone

and

he’s,

he’s

gone

now.

Walker Armstrong: And

I

asked him,

what

do you

doing?

And they can’t find

Bob Bickford: dead or gone. like

left

Walker Armstrong: find his body.

JimBo Stewart: he’s

left.

He

got

angry

and

left It wa it wasn’t

super

clear.

I

think,

I

think

he

got

angry.

He

left.

He’s not,

he’s,

mad. got

killed

because of this lady . And

so asked

the pastor, I said, uh, so we doing about

Marcia? He

goes,

man,

morning. I

do

everything.

Did I get

there?

You know,

I’m

leading worship.

I’m

announced since I’m you

know, doing

sermon,

the, small group,

I’m

doing

the

whole

thing,

right. And.

And I

asked

him,

I said,

are

you discipling

anybody?

And

he goes,

well, I

don’t

have time

to

disciple anybody. And I said, well, hold on. I said, you know, let’s talk about this. I said, here’s what

you

gotta understand

is

that’s

actually the job, right?

Is, is so let’s find some other people to do announcements. Appointed

a replant

hub for

worship

and just said, look, let’s, let’s

get

as

much

of

that

off

your plate

as possible. And is there one guy

that’s coming

to the. [00:22:00]

At

least

one

that

you can

sit down with

and

disciple

intentionally.

Uh, and he said, yeah.

And

I said,

well,

let

me

back

up.

Have

you

ever been

discipled?

And

he goes, well,

to

be

honest,

no. .

I said, okay. So his AMS was there with me and I

looked

at

the

AMS and I said,

have you

ever

been discipled? Because I, I, before I had agreed to get him to disciple him, I need to make

sure

this guy,

and he said, yes.

I said, okay. Would you agree

to

disciple

the

pastor?

Well, he

disciples

a

member or two.

And

I

said,

look,

brilliant.

If

nothing

else.

I

mean,

this

is,

we’re

moving

in

the

right

direction.

Very

slowly

but

quicker than you leading worship, doing announcements, leading bible study

in

children’s.

And

then burn

it out.

Mm-hmm. ,

it

actually, it’s

gonna work

quicker

than

that.

Mm-hmm.

Bob Bickford: and

that’s

biblical, right.

and

JimBo Stewart: trust

a reliable

Bob Bickford: man who won’t trust

a reliable

man. Right. So

I mean

that, and there’s

interesting,

and

I’ve heard,

I, I

think I

Doing some

reading

one

time

and,

and somebody

raised

the question,

why did [00:23:00] we lose a

generation

of disciple makers?

Like,

what

happened?

Right. Tracy back

and, and

they didn’t

answer it right.

So

maybe

that’s

so bootcampers like,

leave

us, leave us a comment.

Drop us an email. Let

us

know

if you know

the

answer

to

that question.

We

left.

JimBo Stewart: a

new episode.

Oh, well, it’s, here’s the last thing I would say you is,

I told

that pastor,

I said,

here’s here’s the good news.

So much of ministry

in

pastoral ministry, you end

up

feeling.

you’re

not doing

anything

spiritual.

I mean, you’re negotiating copier leases and

you’re dealing

with roofs

and

you’re

dealing with angry members, and, uh, if you’ll commit to 30 minutes

to

an hour of every week to sit down with the Bible open and disciple

somebody,

it’ll

be

the

saving

grace

of

that

week

when

everything else in

that

week

is

30 minutes

of just sitting in

the

word with another believer

in

helping

each

other

grow in

the Lord.

I

mean,

just

might

help

you

not

quit that

[00:24:00] week.

Walker Armstrong: Yeah, yeah.

And

I

mean, again,

um,

you know, keep

your

eye

on the prize.

What

is

the

prize

life

transf? ,that’s the

prize. And in addition to that

life transformation,

that leads

to

other

life

transformation.

Yeah. And

so then you become more relational in your, in your evangelism approach. Uh, you definitely become more relational in your, in your view of disciple making. It’s not just

a

Bible

study.

Right.

Um, and then, you know, you, it is gotta be, uh, replicable. It’s, it’s got to, uh, be something that Joe, who’s a.

Down

the

street, uh, can

do

it after

you’ve

done it for

him.

Mm-hmm. .

If

it’s

not,

I

mean, you think about,

I mean,

how

many of

the

original

apostles

were

literate?

Yeah.

You

know, we don’t even

think,

you

know, we don’t even think about

that.

Yeah.

And

whatever they

had

in the early

church

before

the

whole

cannon

was

completed,

they

used it. [00:25:00]

Yeah.

You know,

and, um,

Bob Bickford: We’re,

we’re,

JimBo Stewart: we’re,

we’ve

got

plenty

Walker Armstrong: of

resources.

We’ve got

more resources. Yeah. And it, the problem we have is not

resources, it

is

just

the

practical commitment and the wholehearted commitment of saying, I’m

gonna

pour

my

life into

other

people

and

challenge

them

to do the

same.

JimBo Stewart: Walker,

thanks

for

coming

to

the

bootcamp

again. Sure. We

always

love

having

you

on

here.

Thank

you,

bud.