JimBo Stewart: [00:00:00] Here we are back at it again at the boots. I hope you’re ready for the next episode. As we continue on into the character of a leader, we’re recording this one a little early, just an anticipation of the food coma that we will be in after our time in new Orleans for am I re planter. so looking forward to our time together.

we were recording this prior to that event. and man, I just know we’re going to have an amazing time, me and you and our wives and double doc and his wife, and, eating our way through new Orleans and having a good time. Am I re planter?

Bob Bickford: Yeah, man. We had a blast last time we were down there for a training with some of our Korean friends, from the Korean Baptist, council of churches and, Jimbo, you introduced me to something that was fabulous. It was the char-grilled oyster. And. Man I’m telling you I’m I’m ready to get. Get after that once more.

And, I’m excited. NOLA is a good place and, and our good friends at the [00:01:00] seminary there, at no bits are awesome. And, so it was great experience and MIT planters, always a fun event. And I think we. Two thirds over capacity. It seems like, I think Jimbo, if I recall, right. P people just kept calling and saying, can I go?

And somebody, I don’t know who just kept saying yes. And so we’ve got some really full rooms and they’re going to have a good time.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah, it’s going to be a blast. So I got to ask you, uh, cause we went to, we actually had char-grilled oysters at two places last time. We’re only going to have time to go to one. So we did Drago’s and we did new Orleans food and spirits. so which one are you wanting to hit up this time? When we go, do you have a preference out of the

two?

Bob Bickford: Yeah, that’s, you’re making me, that’s a hard decision because, Drago’s was the first experience that I had, which, you know, the first, the first experience is always kind of sets in your mind and then new Orleans food and spirits was. Excellent as well. it was a bit dark in there if I recall, right.

In new Orleans foods and spirits, it wasn’t dark as dark and Drago’s so, I don’t [00:02:00] know. I mean, the food was great at both places. I, it’s a hard call for me, so I dunno. Game-time decision maybe.

JimBo Stewart: for me, the, char-grilled oysters are better at Drago’s, but the entrees are better at new Orleans food and spirits.

so it’s a matter of whether you want the better oysters or the better entree.

Bob Bickford: Yeah. I think the ones that new Orleans food and spirits were were good, but I think that’s an expert evaluation and, uh, I think you nailed it on that.

JimBo Stewart: There we go. We’ll see, you’ll have to tune in next time and see which one we chose and to see how our, wives responded. it’ll be fun hanging out with them and double doc and his wife,

Bob Bickford: Good times. All right. What are we talking about today, Jim?

JimBo Stewart: Well, we’re going to continue in the character of a leader. We had five key factors, humility that we’ve already covered. Goodwill. We’ve already covered empathy. We covered a couple of episodes ago, and then we really had a, supplemental episode to empathy on the emotional cycle of change with a boots on the ground guests.

Tim Williams out from east Texas. [00:03:00] and so today we’re going to continue on with the fourth of the five key factors for respect co for character called respect. And then the next one is integrity. so on respect, here are a couple of scriptures. I just want to walk through kind of. I biblical basis for the idea that we’re trying to communicate with respect.

first I’m going to, I’m going to start with just a couple of words out of the last passage. I’m going to give you on this and then come back because there’s in the ESL. And it Romans chapter 14, verse 19, it says, so then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual up building. I think that phrase mutual upbuilding really communicates what we mean, partially about respect and that it’s not just that we respect others, but that we build each other up and Philippians chapter two, verse three.

we could even see that out of these five factors of, of character. they build on each other. if you look at Philippians two, three, it says, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility, which has already one of our characteristics of [00:04:00] mind, let each of you regard one another as more important than himself that, that mind and heart of Christ is what we see in respect.

Jesus tells us in Matthew seven, 12, therefore, however you want people to treat you. So treat them for, this is the law and the profits out of the commands of Christ. First Thessalonians five, 12, and 13. We ask you brothers to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and Monish you and to esteem them very highly in love because of their.

Every pastor’s favorite verse, other than the Hebrews one that tells them to submit to us, be at peace among yourselves. So not only do we need to respect be respected, we need to be respectable. And when you respect others, first, Peter two 17, uses the word. The word there for honor really communicates the idea of respect as we’re talking about.

Honor, everyone love the brotherhood fear. God honor. The emperor. Romans 12, 10, love one another with brotherly affection outdo [00:05:00] one another in showing. Honor. And then I already referenced Romans 14, 17 or 19 for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but a variety of justice and peace and joy in the holy spirit, whoever the serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.

So. Let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual, building. Now, there are dozens of other passages I could have brought in, but I felt like these hit, some of the facets will bring up some others as we go through the five imperatives of respect. But I just wanted to just real fast, rapid fire, give you a biblical foundation for what we’re talking about today.

Bob Bickford: I love it. Jimbo. I think that, it’s really important. I’m glad you centered it on, the Romans past. I think that there’s, there’s this, loss of honor in our culture that, has come from a lot of different things. And tomorrow, you know, next week we’re going to talk about integrity. And so we w that’s the lack of integrity has [00:06:00] in the lack of, Just the casualness of which we approach our relationships has really kind of done some things to honor.

Right. We don’t just honor somebody because they have a position. We honor them because they’re, who they are, created by God. And then also we honor them because. Calls us to do that. And so, I think this is, it’s really reflected in this idea of respect. And one of the challenges for us is when we’re working with people who do unrespectable things and we still are called to respect them.

And man, that’s a tough one in particular. Replant trusts or getting to situations where you may have history that is not, doesn’t seem worthy of respect. You may have individuals who don’t act in a respectable way. And so you’re going to find yourself really challenged. So this bringing this down to the boots on the grounds, guys, this is an important one.

And if you can operate and respect people that even when they are acting in unrespectable ways, man, I think it’s going to go a long way in terms of building you as a leader, uh, how people see.

JimBo Stewart: it’s [00:07:00] one of the ways we exemplify. The character of Christ, I think is by showing others respect. as you know, Bob and our family, we have the Stewart family core values and, it’s respect, integrity, self-control and joyfulness, and it’s for God’s glory and our joy in. And so this is one that we, we try to live out and communicate in our house a lot with our kids.

the idea of respect is one. My dad really, hammered into me growing up the idea of respect. I, it just makes a massive difference if you can, if you can just treat people with respect, whether they’ve earned it or not, that they’ve earned it because they are created in the image of God. that’s, what’s made them earn it.

And so there are five imperatives of respect that we want. Honor others, like we’ve already talked about open communication, disagreeing, productively, help others win and express gratitude. on honor, others, we kind of already referenced this in [00:08:00] Romans 12, 10, uh, and first Peter two 17 first Peter two 17 honor, everyone.

Romans 12, 10, love one another brotherly affection out to one another in showing honor. And so I would ask yourself this question. When people leave a conversation and our interaction with me, do they feel like I have honored them? I mean, it’s a high bar, but, but do people, would, would people say, if I said, Hey.

You just ha you just had an interaction with Bob Bickford for awhile. I mean, do you feel like he honored you? I mean, it’s a weird question to ask conversationally, but I think if you think through that filter and try to, even after every major interaction, just self-evaluate, I mean, would that person feel honored by the way that I approached our time together?

Bob Bickford: really good question. I think we have to make the distinction too, in today’s day and age, that honoring doesn’t mean you necessarily agree or affirm them in their positions, right. And their ideology. I think that the, the word honor there, it really is [00:09:00] describing in the Greek it’s describing, honoring.

Someone for the value that’s placed upon them by God, not from the soundness of their idea, or do they have the best idea, that sort of thing. Right. And I think we’re going to get into some other discussion here in a minute. There’s going to help us understand how to do some of those things in terms of.

You know, talking with one another when we disagree or have a different opinion and that sort of thing, but just honoring people for a person for who they are and they’re created to be, I think that’s vitally important and I think it really see once you do that, it lays the foundation for the next steps that, that you’ve laid out here.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. So outdo one another in showing honor, like it says in Romans 12, 10, and the next one is open communication. fusions for, 15 and then verse 25, if you put them together, says rather speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him, who is the head into Christ and then verse 25, therefore having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor.[00:10:00]

For, we are members of one another. Again, you’ll see how these all start to build over into each other and bleed into each other. As we’re already moving into integrity a little bit, part of open communication is, is speaking w and so honor people by speaking the truth, to them, by speaking the truth in love, by being honest and having integrity in your intentions, as you communicate with people, in a way that builds people up and honors them.

Bob Bickford: Yeah. So one of the things that I think can be challenging, for visionary leaders is that visionary leaders often will speak about potentiality and possibility in the majority of folks that a visionary would speak to are not visionaries. And they’re going to take the vision. Word as definitive action or definitive decision.

so if, for instance, if you’re talking about a particular initiative at church and you say, you know, man, I think we could do this, this and this. Right. And you have it in Europe, out, you process [00:11:00]things verbally because you’re a visionary person and you’re just, you’re throwing stuff on the wall to see if it’s going to take or not.

One of the ways you honor the body is by not necessarily. Changing speaking about vision, but being intentional about how you speak about vision. So for instance, in saying, you know, I wonder if we could start an afterschool program that would reach the school next door you’re deciding, Hey, this is a possibility as opposed to saying, Hey, I think we should start a.

Afterschool program for the school next door. Right? And so there’s a difference. The potentiality versus man, this is the decision we need to make. And so I think sometimes visionaries, when they communicate visionaries are pretty open with their communication. But sometimes what, what happens is that communication can, can go to cross purposes, particularly if people think it’s a done deal or decided deal.

and so I think that can be challenging. So I think that’s something to watch for. And I don’t think it’s necessarily speaking of false. but it may not necessarily be speaking the [00:12:00] truth right. In the sense of this is something we are going to do versus this is something we might think about doing.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. So open communication, making sure that the words we use are, are building people up that we understand the power of our tongue, as it talks about in James, in good grief. So many verses in Proverbs. Talk about, uh, how to think about your words. And, um, and so just thinking about the way that you use the.

The strength of your words, because your words do have strength. you know, and I like to think about Proverbs 27, 17 iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another, are we sharpening each other? Is there mutual upbuilding, in our communication, is it productive in a sanctifying and edifying type way?

and then speaking of productivity, so honor others open communication and then disagree. Productively. it, this is not the, we’ll just agree to disagree. listen, this is the, the iron sharpens iron thing, as, as you well [00:13:00] know, I’m sure listener, is not a gentle process necessarily speaking the truth in love is not.

Roses and rainbows. this is their hard moments in leadership and they’re especially hard moments in pastoring, a replant or revitalization, and there will be disagreements. But scripture is clear that unity has to be a goal that we are working towards within the body of Christ in Ephesians four, three, make every effort to maintain unity later in Ephesians four in verses 31 to 32, let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander.

I always love. When Paul light gets in these long lists, because he’s basically going like, whatever loophole you’re trying to come up with. Like, it’s, it, it doesn’t work. There’s no loophole here. if you’re like, well, I’m not bitter, let all bitterness and wrath and [00:14:00] anger and clamor and slander be put away from me.

Along with all malice. So there’s a pretty extensive list there of things we got to put away, be kind to one another tenderhearted forgiving one another as God in Christ, forgave you, I think about the disagreement that Paul and John mark had, right? There’s this moment in the book of acts where. Kind of partying ways.

And sometimes we do need to part ways for awhile, but they do, but they do reconcile. We see towards the end of Paul’s life that he asked for John mark, to come be with him. there’s a difference between disagreeing and disagreeing. Productively.

Bob Bickford: disagreeing, distort destructively, right? Taking names and keeping score and, dividing up in, you know, building teams. I think this disagreeing productively makes it about the issue or the action. Right? So the issue is, and let’s say it’s a ministry. ideally. Initiative, [00:15:00] right. You’re going to, you’re seeking to maybe do something administratively or you want to do something missionally.

There are people who are going to have ideas about that and their ideas are necessarily not going to necessarily line up all the time. So how do you keep it about this issue base and how do you, how do you keep it about this? This thing that we’re discussing, right. I think is super important. most of us, when we disagree, we tend to take it personally.

Right. And, and I think because so much of our identity is wrapped up in, what we say and what we do. In how we go about things. And so I think that, it’s important not to take a disagreement personally, but to inquire about it. Right. okay.

So we seem to not be on the same page about this particular thing.

Let’s talk about that a little bit. What, what, what about this suggestion is difficult for you or why do you. How such, what do you have some reservations about it? Right. So let’s talk about those things, and get substance really. That’s the only things, you know, on our replant team. I think we do that pretty well.

we just been, we invite discussion [00:16:00] and dialogue and push back and we’ll talk about. You know, what’s the best decision and what does the data show and what do we know and how will this work? And we think longterm, we try to walk around an issue. a lot of times in churches, particularly when you have gatekeepers, who’ve just been, they’ve had say for a long time, and you have people.

The most likely are not like leaders, but followers, the strong personalities in the room tended to predominate. And if you are replanted to her and you’re coming into to lead the church forward and change, you’re probably going to find gatekeepers, our church bullies who have strong opinions about the way things should be, and they may be informed by personal preference or preservation, or ultimately in the worst cases.

If they see change as a threat. Their position of power. So, a productive disagreement is to, to really try to dig in and unlayer, what’s, what’s the real battle we’re having here. Is it really about the issue or is it really concerned? And [00:17:00] if you can talk about the issues related to the discussion where you’re having a disagreement, what you’ll find is eventually.

You could get to the core of, uh, of the issue where it’s, uh, a personal thing. It’s not a productive way to disagree. It becomes about personal preference and power.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. And again, on how all these things build on top of each other, the way you get to this point to be able to disagree. Productively is you approach this with humility and all the aspects. We talked about humility with Goodwill and all the aspects we talked about in Goodwill with empathy in all the things we talked about, empathy, and then within respect, honoring others and open communication.

You put all those pieces together. Then you will have. The skills and the ability and the competency and the character to disagree productively. and it takes, it takes some emotional and spiritual maturity to be able to do that. But I’m convinced those, those kinds of pieces of the. Oh, the pie of the ingredients of humility, Goodwill, and [00:18:00] empathy, and respect, all build to your ability to do this, to disagree productively.

so that’s on the negative side of things on the positive side of things, it also would, will help enable you to be able to help others win. that, one of the signs of maturity is that you are excited when other people, when one of the signs of immaturity is that you. you wonder why it’s not you when other people, when you want it to be about you.

and so I see this happen a lot of times with people where they’ll see something good happen, and they’ll just, they want to rain on that parade, or they want to wonder why, well, you know, or they hear a compliment about somebody else. And they’re like, why aren’t you complimenting me? and so in, in maturity and we have to have this approach of mutual upbuilding like in Ephesians four, 19, uh, Ephesians four, in Romans 14, 19 and Ephesians four, 15 and 16.

Again, rather speaking the truth in love. We are to grow up in every way into him, who is the head and to Christ from whom the whole body joined and held together by [00:19:00] every joint, which it is equipped when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. this is what it means to help others.

Bob Bickford: Yeah.

this is this. The high level, relationship and leading right here. And, you know, it’s easy to say, Hey, when, we decide something. And it, you know, we all win, like when we can come together and, you know, the, when the tide comes in, all the ships rise in the Harbor. Right. Well, that’s true. But sometimes when you guys come to a decision and, you know, with your leaders, your deacons, your committee, your elders, or whatever, there’s probably going to be some folks who feel like the decision was a loss for them in some ways.

And we also have to acknowledge that in some cases it is.

You know, they wanted this to happen And now this isn’t going to happen. And they were the, you know, if there were five people in the room and they were the only one for it, then the other four were not right. And so they leave that [00:20:00] feeling like there’s a loss.

And so part of that, part of the organizational awareness and the emotional intelligence is to be able to say, as a leader, looking at that one. You know, Hey bill, you seem, I know you’re really struggling with this decision. Can we process this out a bit? Right. Can we talk about, so we’ll make sure you’re okay.

Right. Either at the end of the meeting or after the meeting, that sort of thing, or even if you’re the leader, and let’s say you’re the one that’s you don’t, you know, you can’t build, you can’t build a sense of consensus or majority of people want to go with it. So I think you, you have to, um, You have to really work at this one too, to have a kingdom vision in mind.

And then you also have to realize, and this is hard for re planters. If they feel like they’re losing battles every week. And, over the course of a year, uh, quite quite a few battles are quite a few things that they want to see change. Don’t change. You’ve got to realize that you’re going to have the tendency to want to win something sometimes. Right. And so as a leader, that’s kind of a dangerous [00:21:00] place to be if you’ve got to win something somewhere. So I think being mindful of that, it’s like, what’s the best for all of them. And then I would also say to, to the committee heads or the deacons split, if the pastor is always losing, that’s not good if he’s, if you always say no, like that’s not good.

I remember when I took a youth pastor. One of the things I asked was, Hey, do you need you to meet all the committee meeting notes? And so they started giving me, they send me like, I don’t to say like a year’s worth of committee meeting notes and Jimbo. I saw like for the last six months, every time that you’ve passed or proposed something, the committee voted them down.

and so there’s no doubt why that guy left. He was like, yeah, I’m done here. Like they, they want. My leadership. Right. And I remember seeing an email going, Hey, do you guys notice this, like this track record here? And, uh, the chairperson that was kinda my connection to interview never responded to the email, but it goes both sides.

Like we have to find some way. To win together, right? The mutual [00:22:00] upbuilding the mutual. And to realize that the Lord has placed us all in relationship with one another as leaders and decision-makers, and that we need to listen to the tension and Lena.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. And that’s where I’d take us back to when we talk about the stuff from predictable success and the kingdom commitment, phrase that we, we encourage you and your team to make together is I will place the interest of the church and the kingdom of God ahead of my own personal desires and preferences.

and again, this takes that humility and Goodwill and all the things that we’ve been talking about up to this point. and so another passage, I think Romans 12 again, which is such a great chapter. says in verse 16, and I think in 17, live in harmony with one. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly.

And this is so key right here. This, this phrase never be wise in your own site. Again, there’s a myriad of Proverbs that back up, that idea never be wise in your own sight for pay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all [00:23:00] on again that honor and respect are much the same word if possible.

So far as it depends on you. In other words, it’s not always. But so far as it depends on you live peaceably with all, this is what it means to help others win as much as you can. And then lastly, the, so honor others open communication, disagree, productively, help others win and express gratitude. the beginning of Ephesians, I do not cease in verse 16.

I do not cease to give. Thanks for you remembering you in my prayers, man. Paul says this and so many other letters and so many other places. constantly and just speak. towards each other, respect each other with gratitude. Say thank you. I mean, it’s just as simple as, Hey man. Thanks for working so hard on that.

And we talked about this is, this is connected to when we talked about before an empathy of specific encouragement, but it’s not just encouragement. it’s. We give specific things and specific gratitude. Hey, thank you for, and then specifically and regularly say out [00:24:00] loud, your gratitude towards others.

Don’t assume that they know it just because you.

Bob Bickford: Yeah. and I would say, say it with sincerity, like develop a sincerity around this gratitude. Like it’s, it’s one thing. And, you know, just to say it. As a function of, well, I got to say this, but it’s another function and people can tell the difference. If you say it with sincerity that really displays a heart attitude.

That’s now being verbalized.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. And let me tell you, man, don’t, don’t underestimate the power today of handwritten thank-you cards, because they’re rare. and we we’ve talked about on a replant hack before I used the app, felt on my iPad, where I can do handwritten and I can just send it from my iPad with a customized picture.

so you can look into that, but, express gratitude regularly, specifically uniquely, I mean, figure out ways to make sure people understand how grateful you are for them and the reasons that you’re grateful for them. And so, so Bob, thank you for being a good friend and a good boss and a good podcast host and a fruity friend and all the, all the ways that [00:25:00] you bless my life.

Bob Bickford: Jimbo. Likewise, bud. It’s been a lot. It’s just so much fun hanging out. And, I think, you know, a couple of weeks ago I found, a picture. I think it was some three years ago or so that, you came up to do a training here in St. Louis and that’s where it kind of all began, right? it was a start of a unique friendship and relationship, co-working relationship and, developed into a podcast.

So, man, I’m a fan of Jimbo and fan of the Stewart family, and I’m super excited. We get to see each other here at the end of this week.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah. So you assume.