JimBo Stewart: [00:00:00] Here we are back at the bootcamp and I’m glad to say I am among the living again. I’ve got a Yelp review for you, Bob. Okay. COVID zero out of five stars. Highly do not recommend it is a miserable, miserable virus. Whatever strain I got was the weirdest oddest thing. And then I got another Yelp review for you moving.

While recovering from COVID negative 25 out of five. That’s the worst. Cause here’s the deal. You can’t even ask anybody for help because you’re like a leper. Right. And I mean, you’re, you gotta yell unclean everywhere you go. And so I, I don’t know if there is a good time to get COVID, but I imagine there’s a better time than when you’re moving.

Let’s I mean, it really it’s insane how hard it is to move. Wow having COVID

Bob Bickford: I can’t even imagine, that in the first [00:01:00] place and that you attempted it and did it. And are able to have a, you know, a voice and the energy to do a podcast with me today. Jimbo just shows what kind of superhuman dude you are.

JimBo Stewart: we’re about a minute 30 in now. We’ll see how I sound at the end.

Bob Bickford: Yeah, man. COVID is no joke. I think everybody, knows somebody. If even if it’s not in their own family or themselves personally, this has, has had COVID now right at this point. Right? So it is a man. I had it, uh, in August. Uh, we, we jokingly say that Kyle Bierman tried to kill me, uh, with cupboard and a. It is just, uh, it’s, it’s a tough one, man.

And so I’m glad you’re, I’m glad you’re all right. And, and I think all our other brothers and sisters out there and pastor friends, man, it’s been a rough one. Um, and it continues to be a rough one on churches and everybody’s so dang. COVID.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

man. I mean, I know some people have gotten it and tested positive and [00:02:00] had like, you know, almost no symptoms and had been fine. that was not my story. I, I wasn’t hospitalized or anywhere into that, my breathing was fine the whole time. But it just kicked my butt and like every other way in, and even for a few days made me not like the taste of coffee,

I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know how that’s even possible.

I was honestly, I think that may have hit me in the heart. I was super sad. Like I took a sip of coffee and I thought, you know, good. Hi, once my throat finally felt like I could drink coffee, I pour myself a cup of coffee. And it was the worst tasting weirdest smelling thing I’ve ever experienced.

Bob Bickford: that’s my experience always with coffee.

JimBo Stewart: I thought this is how other people experienced coffee.

That not been my experience, but, but I did have some, some good, good times. The NFL playoffs have been a blast to watch man, especially my man, Joe burrow.

Bob Bickford: Joe burrow is legit [00:03:00] and he looks like he’s all of like 17 years old. I mean, the guy is this young looking in the face and, he’s got this, you know, he’s got this re planter characteristic. We talk about grit. He’s got this grit about him. That man, he is something.

JimBo Stewart: Oh man. And he liked the. The unfounded, eternal optimist, right? To, in order to replant a dying church, you kind of have to believe in the impossible. And anytime we talked to Joe burrow about all these things he’s accomplishing and the bangles haven’t done this since the eighties and all this kind of stuff, he always just dismisses it and goes, Yeah. we’re not going to talk about all that.

We’re why not us. We worked hard. We’ve earned.

Bob Bickford: Yeah. And, and really they have, I mean, there, their offensive line, I was watching the game last night and, one of the continuing refrains of the announcers was Joe burrows doing all this without a stellar offensive line. He’s got a, he’s got some guys that are good. But he doesn’t have like the, you know, he doesn’t have like the Buccaneers or the Patriots [00:04:00] offensive line that Tom Brady could hide behind.

But man, Joe, Joe burrow is really resourceful. Um, he’s a lot of fun to watch and I’m hoping that the Bengals go all the way. I’m not a big Niners fan. the Niners are playing some really good ball right now, but I’m, I’m going to go Bengals all the way.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah, I’m going big goes all the way.

You don’t bet against Joe burrow. I think, I think he’s got it. And after this, maybe we talk him into, you know, receiving a Lord and, and then becoming a re planter. Cause I think he could do it.

Bob Bickford: Yes.

JimBo Stewart: Well, man, I appreciate you. go in without me with the permanent guest host the professor, Evan skeleton for last week’s episode and jumping in there, you guys did a great job on creating a culture of prayer. I enjoyed listening to that. before that though, we were kind of going through the character of a leader.

For replanting or revitalization. And we said that there were five key factors to [00:05:00] the leadership character of somebody that’s going to do well in replanting and revitalization, the character like who they are, not, not necessarily skills, uh, based as much as their character. And so we talked about humility, Goodwill, empathy, respect, integrity are those factors.

And w we spent some time talking about humility before. Today, I want to talk about Goodwill and, Goodwill is one of those that, it’s an interesting word. the dictionary.com defines Goodwill as a friendly disposition, benevolence kindness, or a cheerful acquiescence or consent. but when I was researching this, there’s actually a, another.

Definition for Goodwill is used a lot in business and accounting, especially when someone or a business or a person is trying to buy a business. And you’re calculating how much that business is worth. Part of what comes into that calculation is what is what is called Goodwill, which is an [00:06:00] intangible sellable asset arising from the reputation of a business and its relations with its customers, the state from the value of its stock, stock and other tangible assets.

So in other words, when you’re evaluating how much a company is worth monetarily, and you’re going to buy this company, Part of what you are going to buy is the Goodwill of that company or the reputation of that company and its reputation with its customers and in the market. So in other words, Having a character of Goodwill as a leader, very simply means like, you’re not a jerk.

Like you’re a joy and a blessing to be around. Like you’re somebody that, and not just that you are a good preacher or that you’re a good leader, but like people actually enjoy. Be around you, not because you’re going to tell him stories, not because of what you do for them, but because [00:07:00] of who you are. And I think about in the qualifications of an elder where it says being well thought of by outsiders, right.

That, the good reputation by outsiders and, and those sorts of character based things. And so, I don’t know, just this idea of Goodwill. What do you think of when you think of Goodwill as a character?

Bob Bickford: Permission to make a fast food analogy,

Jimbo.

All right. So, when you were describing the business Goodwill and the value of that as a non tangible or intangible asset, I thought of two places I thought of Chick-fil-A. And then I thought of Popeye’s right. So you have Chick-fil-A you can roll in there and.

Man in the Midwest, it’s cold right now. And the Chick-fil-A, one of the ones that I attend sometimes, or go to, and the lines wrapped around the building. They’ve got probably eight people outside that are bundled up in codes with iPads and me and Jibo they are moving the line. It [00:08:00] is moving, moving, moving like crazy.

And the whole time there, you know, seeing my pleasure and thank you and they’re happy and you know, all that sort of thing, roll into the Popeye’s that’s near my house. Jibo you’re not even sure if it’s open, right? I mean, you just, not the person’s one time I went to the Popeye’s this is months ago, it was called, but the ones in they’d said, Hey, the drop these, I came here, you come up to the window.

Right. So I roll up to. And I ordered from somebody who barely like, is listening to me and did this hate their life and all that good stuff. So Goodwill Chick-fil-A lack of Goodwill.

Popeye’s

JimBo Stewart: Well, honestly, that’s a great analogy because I think Popeye’s

chicken is maybe the best fried chicken that you could get at a fast food restaurant. as far as the product goes and in that same way to carry that analogy, there are guys in ministry that are skilled and [00:09:00] gifted at leadership and strategy and preaching and vision casting.

But when you spend like, one-on-one time hanging out with them, they’re kind of jerks and they’re all about themselves and they’re not a joy to be around, or they make fun of you all the time. They’re constantly jabbing. That’s like their, the way they show love is by. Insulting and making, you know, poking fun at you.

and not that that can’t be done or once probably just like, that’s all they do. Right. I know guys that, I think God, I got such a gifted communicator, but every time I talk to them, all they do is poke fun and it’s like, they never, they never do anything that feels like it’s a blessing to me other than their ability to preach.

And when I hear them preach, I think, ah, wow. What a, what a great. And so here’s the deal, man. Maybe you can get away with being a Popeye’s type pastor at a [00:10:00] mega church.

when when you can staff out all the other relational stuff and you can isolate off and be away from others and make sure everybody has to get through your secretary and your executive pastor before they get to you, but in a replant or revitalization. I mean preaching is, is honestly not the bulk of what you do, right. The bulk of what you’re doing is related to relationships and Goodwill. And, and how just, is it a blessing to be around. Right. And like, think about, think about what it’s like to hang out with. You are people glad if, if you were to drop by or say, Hey, can I come by the house for a few minutes?

Well, people will be, be glad that you’re going to do that. Or are they going to look forward to that when you leave? Do they go, man, I love that guy that guy’s just a blast

to hang out with. He’s easy to be with. He’s even, it’s easy to hang out. Like I, I enjoy that time. And so I’ve broken this down into.

Five [00:11:00] five key factors of what it means to have Goodwill, right? So I’m gonna list them out and then let’s dive into whatever ones you want to dive into. So, having the character Goodwill means you are a joy and a blessing to be around because you one have a generous spirit. Two, you practice, self-management three, you maintain emotional regulation for you provide specific encouragement to others.

And then five you’re quick to forgive. I think if you could demonstrate. A character that is care that would, could be characterized by those five factors. That would be a blessing to be around. That would be a joy to be around.

Bob Bickford: Yeah, I love those. And I, I, I think we ought to touch base on them. And just in terms of individual, break them out a little bit, uh, when I hear you say generous spirit, I just think of somebody who is generous with encouragement and uplifting and [00:12:00] platforming. And I would also say this jumbo that the person you described earlier is the, the charismatic person who’s fantastic on stage and can hold the attention of.

But often does it at the expense of relationship, they’ll draw a crowd and, but they will they’ll draw us. They’ll draw an audience that laughs at what they say. But if you look at the faces of the people that serve with them and are around them often, they’re the most tired and frustrated people in the room and in a person like that will often go through a lot of staff members, a lot of people, a lot of volunteers, so they can, they can grow a crowd that could maybe even grow a replant to be some size, but their, their longevity in keeping those people, really is difficult because they don’t have a generous spirit.

I love. Who just have this uncanny ability to, to make you sincerely and genuinely feel like you are important and that what you say matters. And, and I’m not talking in like [00:13:00] an insincere way by any means here and to something else, right. I’m going to make you feel important. So. Sign onto my deal, buy my product, be a part of our church.

I’m going to make you feel important because generally I believe I genuinely, I believe you are important because you, are created by God. You’re made in his image. And so I think the people with the generous spirit it’s surprisingly, um, Clifton and I were traveling and we were talking about Rick Warren and both of us had, had up close personal experiences with Rick Warren and, some of our listeners may have too he’s that guy like he is, he’s this big, loud personality on stage.

He’s the. Captivating communicator, but you know what, when, when you’re with Rick Warren or around him, he’s kind of this guy that he may do most of the talking, but, but you just kind of sense. He does really care about the people that he’s around. That’s been my experience with him. and so I love that idea.

Just this idea of man, we’re all in this together. Um, you know, this is not about. Position or roles or platform or size of church or anything like that. You’re just, you’re a [00:14:00] generous student and he loved people and he loved to hear from people.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

I, I had a similar experience with, Louie Giglio years ago.

my my wife was an administrative assistant for a nonprofit. It’s planned and organized major ministry events in a, in a city area. And so my role oftentimes was the driver or the runner. And so whoever the personality, the guest speaker, the worship leader, if they needed to run errands or get anywhere, I was this long before Uber.

So I was the Uber. I was the guy who drove everybody around. And so I got to experience a lot of those guys. And one-on-one time in the car. And the one that really stood out to me was Louie Giglio. Cause we, we spent almost an entire day together, cause he had a bunch of errands. He wanted to run and it was Matt Redmond’s birthday and Matt Redmond’s a British and they have a running joke between them, whether America’s better or Britain.

And, and so. So Louie Gilly giggly on, I went shopping [00:15:00] for Matt Robin’s birthday and got him like an American flag, birthday cake and Lee Greenwood’s, sweetie, and all these things. But I kept thinking I’m hanging out with Louie Giglio. I want to learn everything I can from this guy. But all he kept doing was turning the conversation back to me.

He wanted to hear about me. He wanted to talk about what God was doing in my life, what my calling was, all these sorts of things. And I left feeling like man, like he was genuinely interested in me. And, and so he definitely that generous spirit, but not only a generous spirit, out towards others. practicing self-management I think is one of those things that it’s self management is understanding.

This is part of emotional intelligence, right. Of understanding what it’s like to be around me. Do I dominate conversations? Do I, do I make fun of people too much? Do I deflect? Do I, do people want to be [00:16:00] around and just managing those things? And so I learned, I, I learned a long time ago. I am one of those guys that could talk too much.

And, I love to respond to any story with a story I have that relates. Right. And so if you share a story about something that I think it makes me think about the story, and then I want to share that story and it hit me one day. Probably not. Everybody wants to hear all of those stories. Like they, they probably were excited to tell me the story they were telling and would rather be reading.

And respond to their story. And so I just started trying to self-manage and go, okay. Think about, does this add value? Are people, would, would people be glad that I shared this story? Would they feel like I was running over their story or trying to say mine was better and one up them and really filter that stuff.

And self-manage and man, I found that people probably enjoy being around me a lot more now than.[00:17:00]

Bob Bickford: I just remember all the stories you shared at our, one of our initial Hangouts in Jackson, Missouri at a place

called tractors. I mean, that was, that was a lot of fun. the story. Back and forth like a tennis match then. And it was a lot of fun and laughing, but you do bring up a good point. I think, by trade pastors are talking.

And we talk at church from the stage four, depending on how long you preach anywhere from, you know, 25 to 45 minutes, some even more, it’s probably good to practice listening. And I would say this too in meetings, Jimbo, this is a real big important one for re planters. If you’re, if you’re just new on the.

Me and be the, be the person who doesn’t talk first, but the person who talks last and the person who asks more questions, what are you thinking? How are you feeling? have you guys tried, you know, what have you done to try to reach out to the community before, you know, w w what do you think the questions our members might be asking are all these sensory things that’s sort of, self-regulation rather than coming in with this idea [00:18:00] of, like, you’ve got all the answers and pull that back.

you you’ve got the. There’s no doubt about that. You’ve got the call, but God’s placed his people there and some of the answers rely within the body. So it’s important to regulate everything that you want to say, pull the back, listen in. And that’s going to mean you probably will need to write at the top of your paper in your notebook for the meeting.

Talk less and ask questions more and maybe talk less. Right. So this’ll try that. I count, I encourage some of you guys try that and see, see what difference it makes.

JimBo Stewart: I tell you where that stood out to be in scripture is that was preaching through the book of acts. And I noticed that there’s this. Where they have the Jerusalem council, because there’s debate over whether Gentiles need to be circumcised or not. And Paul, who obviously is a verbose, lots of words. I mean, [00:19:00] intelligent.

he knew where he stood on the subject and there was probably nobody more anti Gentiles. Paul before salvation, but then God calls him to be the apostle to the Gentiles. And he’s getting frustrated because there are these Judaizers coming, especially in Galicia saying that you’ve got to be circumcised, you got to follow these things and he didn’t just jump to what he already knew theologically to be true.

Like he went back to the Jerusalem council. And if you here’s what stood out to me, if you read through the Jerusalem council, You don’t hear basically anything from Paul. He brings the issue to the Jerusalem council and then he stops talking and he lets them talk. And so another thing I realized is that as a pastor, you have this positional power and authority, even if it’s just perceived by some that, [00:20:00] like your word becomes the last word, even if it’s the first. Which is, which is why it should be the last word, because it’s going to make people feel like they can’t share. and so, especially in meetings where you’re trying to make decisions about the direction of the church or a ministry or something like that, the moment you share your opinion. It, it just comes with a lot more weight than everybody else in the room.

Now, whether that’s should, should be true or not, that’s another debate or conversation, maybe it should be, but just be, be mindful of that and make sure that everyone feels valued by managing yourself. And then the other thing is part of this is emotional intelligence is, is emotional regulation. Like you can’t, you can’t be the guy that blows up, right?

Like the. When people get really upset and they’re immature, they are not able to regulate their emotions and it comes out an outburst. And so what that tells you that outburst is a lack of [00:21:00]self control and a lack of maturity. And it’s easy for us to want to respond in kind when that happens, when somebody comes to that, like that, to be able to go, oh Yeah, Well, and then in the same way, man, there’s. Versus in Proverbs and the Bible about what it means to just take it and be calm and have a soft response and, emotional regulation, but also to not like there’s the other side of emotional regulation, not just in conflict, but like not letting it get you depressed, try, you know, knowing where your identity is, knowing where your value is, knowing where your worst is, will allow you to be a more emotionally regulated person.

Bob Bickford: Yeah, I think of, another instance that I was a part of a staff team. We were discussing something. I can’t even remember what we were discussing. But I can get wound up and communicate with a lot of passion right. In almost like, um, but I think like a Caleb, like, like give me the hill country or, you know, or like, [00:22:00] even before it’s like, you know, yeah, there are giants and land, but our God is with us.

Like, let’s go right, come on. Let’s do that. And so it was kind of one of those moments and. And, uh, our children’s pastor at the church that was serving it at the time, came up with, you know, we were, we were talking about a specific issue and we were trying to incorporate like open and honest dialogue and debate and not take issues personally.

And so she felt like my passion was so strong that. For her, it was diminishing her. And so I learned from that experience. Okay. There’s a time to really speak with passion, but there’s also a time be aware of the room. If you’re speaking with some passion in, and I have a tendency to be direct to at times in with my high D personalities.

So high D directness combined with passion is like a steam roller in the staff room. And so, man, I have to dial that one back. And especially [00:23:00] if, if I feel strongly about something or somebody is, and this is a hard one for me, and I’ll just, you know, say this honestly. And admittedly, Jimbo, I don’t know if you noticed this, but sometimes people say stupid things.

There were.

JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

Bob Bickford: You know, I’ll be in a meeting and somebody say something, it’s just like, oh man, that is, I can’t believe. Like I just can’t believe. And it’s, you know, I just I’ll leave it at that. And so they’re inside of me, this war is like raging to a couple of ways. One is like, I can’t let that stupid thing be the last word to be said, I can’t believe they said that like, they’re on staff, like, come on, man.

Like, you know, that sort of thing. And so I’ve got this internal war that’s just like happening in me. And it reminds me of a girlfriend that I had in high school. I knew it was going to be a bad day. When I would show up at, at the school, the hallway or something. And she was, I don’t know how she did this Jimbo for her eyes closed from the bottom.

You know, most people’s [00:24:00] eyes, the eyelids will go down, but if she would get mad at me, her eyelids, it seemed like her eyes and it could be an optical illusion, but her eyes would like close from the bottom. And I know like this is going to be bad. This is going to be a bad day. Right. All that to say, I’m not going to staff meetings.

I could. So a couple of my friends at this one church, like, bro, we know like that, that guy was like, when he said that that was like twisting you out and, and uh, we could just see it brewing in you, but thanks for not like unloading on him. Right. I think, and that’s the thing is like non-verbal communication, verbal communication, this whole idea of man you have got to be, and it’s hard.

You gotta be aware of everything that’s happened within you and be able to self-regulate.

JimBo Stewart: our, so after emotional regulation, I would say provide specific encouragement to others. I try to tell my kids all the time, how proud I am of them or how much I love them. My oldest son, [00:25:00] out of the three probably deals with a low self esteem, more, than the others. And he, uh, I’ll say, buddy, I’m so proud of you and he’ll go for what. Like again, years ago he started that and it hit me like, man, he doesn’t just need me to say, I’m proud of you or I love you. He like, he wants, he wants specifics. So even like when he plays sports, he, he wants to know, Hey, what can I work on? What am I good at? Like, and he wants to know specifics and really we’re all like that.

Like sometimes when people, I think, I feel like sometimes there are leaders who. Reading a book or hurting a conference or on a podcast somewhere, Hey, you need to be encouraging or people will get frustrated working on our you. And so they just, all the time will say, you guys are so great. You’re doing a great job,

but they never like give specifics. And eventually once you get [00:26:00] general, praise enough, it really loses. A lot of weight and power because it feels like it’s fluff. And so there’s a lot of power when you can say, Hey, you did a really great job leading that specific ministry outreach or the way that you were sharing the gospel with that guy, or, I mean, you’re such a good neighbor.

Like I always hear about how much you’re loving your neighbors or you’re so hospitable, like giving specific encouragement is so much more powerful than general. And.

Bob Bickford: Yes, I think, it is important to do that. Because as our good buddy, mark Halleck says, one of the things we lack the most in the culture that we live in is specific encouragement and encouragement in general, but specific encouragement. So I think it you’re right on.

JimBo Stewart: and then lastly, it would be to be quick to forgive. man, just don’t be known as a guy who holds a grudge. People are going to hurt you. People are going to disappoint you. People are going to betray you and [00:27:00] replanting and revitalization. I mean, that’s just the truth. It’s just going to happen.

And you’ve got to figure out.

What you, what you got to do to understand how much you’ve been forgiven so that you can be prepared to forgive others, because if you become known as a guy that once you cross them, you’re kind of done and blacklisted and you’re no longer enjoyed to be a blessing around you’re a joy and a blessing to be around.

And that’s again, what does it mean to have Goodwill? Man. I like being around that guy. He has Goodwill. He he’s encouraging. He listens to me. He is a generous spirit. He’s wealthy. He self-manages, and he seems emotionally like really stable. and then I’ve messed up and he’s quick to forgive me. and so pastor, as you, as you leave.

Yes. You need to be a good preacher. Yes. You need to have good strategy. Yes. He needed to be a good evangelist. Yes. All those skill-based things. but you also just need to be a joy to be around and like don’t [00:28:00] be a jerk. Be, be a blessing, have be a guy that has Goodwill for others.

Bob Bickford: Love the list. One practical application, just take these bullet points. And then what I would say is sit down with either. A person you really trust and elder you really trust, or maybe even your spouse, and just say, Hey, which of these, am I practicing well? Or am I, am I exhibiting well in which of these maybe, would be helpful for me to work on as I lead and then use that as a, as a good constructive feedback, again, from a person you trust to launch you into, efforts to.

You know, be more, uh, personal Goodwill and, uh, see how that makes a difference in your church and your relationships and your staff and your elders and your deacons and the people around you.

JimBo Stewart: Excellent. Hey, we hope to see some of you. guys in new Orleans and just, uh, uh, a week or two, two weeks. And, it’s sold out. It’s maxed out. So we’re so excited. It’s going to be a great time together. look forward to talking to you guys next week. Have a blessed day and be a blessing and a joy.