[00:00:00] JimBo Stewart: Here we are back at it again, back at the Replant Bootcamp. I hope you’re ready for the next episode. For today’s episode, I have Brandon Moore back with us to talk more about establishing goals as a church renewal leader. We had him on a few episodes ago, but we wanted to get a little more practical, dive deep down into each of the specific areas.

But first off, just to say we’re here in Colorado. beautiful state. I get why. people live in Colorado, at least in the summer.

[00:00:29] Brandon Moore: Yes, and Denver is amazing. we got to, we got to spend 10 weeks here with the Calvary Family of Churches that we’re here to spend some time with this week. And, man, uh, Denver is like the perfect mix of city and mountains at your fingertips.

And it’s, and it’s, there’s no humidity or mosquitoes.

[00:00:47] JimBo Stewart: No, yeah, it was, uh, so we both went to, what trail did we go to this morning?

[00:00:52] Brandon Moore: morning? Waterton Canyon.

[00:00:53] JimBo Stewart: Waterton, you ran, I did not run.

[00:00:56] Brandon Moore: Yes, but it’s, it’s gorgeous

[00:00:58] JimBo Stewart: It’s beautiful.

[00:01:00] Brandon Moore: I ran on some bighorn sheep. It was pretty

[00:01:02] JimBo Stewart: Yeah.

So I saw the sign that said, it was interesting to me, it said, If you encounter bighorn sheep, here’s what you do.

Right. And it was like, you know, throw your arms in the air, yell at them. do not try to feed them. Do not try to pet them. which made me a little nervous. Cause I was like, I don’t know that I want to encounter something. I have to scare to not hurt me.

[00:01:24] Brandon Moore: hurt me. Yeah. Yeah. Well that’s not anything of what the whole crowd of people was doing, near the bighorn sheep that I came across.

They were standing there staring quietly, but, they seem to be okay.

[00:01:36] JimBo Stewart: so, man, make it out to Denver at least in the winter or not in the winter, in the spring or the summer. I don’t know that I wouldn’t want to be here during the winter. but we’re here for the Calvary family of churches. Calvary Con, on radical collaboration and, excited to get to partner with Calvary on something like this.

And, you know, goal setting is something they do a good job of setting some goals and going after those in. So we talked in the previous episode that you were on about, how goal setting is not unspiritual. and we talked through some categories and ways to think about that. But I wanted to, We ran out of time before I really wanted to dive into the three categories that you established of leadership, ecclesiology, and missiology, because I think for a lot of guys are gonna hear that and go, I mean, I don’t know what, I mean, I hear you.

What do I, what do I do with

that?

So, with leadership, I thought it would be interesting to even, I think a good way to think about setting goals as a leader is if you go to the episode prior to this one with Dr. Josh Ellis, PhD in strategic leadership, great guy to talk

to about leadership, and his working theories on leading from the middle in the church.

And that essentially when you’re leading, you have. Three main categories of people that you are shepherding and leading you have this kind of top group that’s running hard and they’re going to run ahead and then you’ve got this middle group It’s going to kind of stay behind a little bit, but they’re with you And then you’ve got this behind group that there may be healing or they’re not 100 really bought in but they’re they’re still here They’re not going anywhere.

And then there’s a fourth group that Probably nothing you do We’ll be okay.

[00:03:18] Brandon Moore: Yeah, we all we all know that group, right?

[00:03:20] JimBo Stewart: and so we’re not gonna, we’re just gonna pray for that group and we’re gonna shepherd them and we’re gonna love them. Yeah. but I don’t know that they have even given us permission to lead them, so we’re not necessarily gonna try to lead them.

So, on the people aspect of leadership, I think one good way to think about this is go back to Josh Ellis’s episode. Look at where he talks about. Uh, the six ingredients of leadership when it comes to leading people. And that’s building trust, casting vision, equipping, resourcing, encouraging, and serving.

And he goes into how those apply to each of those categories. Uh, when you hear that framework and you’re sitting there with a pastor and he’s trying to figure out how to set some leadership goals, what would be some practical goals you would help him set in, in that leading people category?

[00:04:08] Brandon Moore: Yeah, I think you’ve got to start with just identifying, you know, who are some of those folks in each of those categories for you and who, who has some availability to begin to pour into.

Um, because sometimes those people in that like top 15 percent or whatever it is that are really running out in front, like they’re not necessarily going to have as much availability as others. They may be. business leaders or whatever it is. And so they, you know, they’re going to give you what they have, but they may not have the availability for you to like really pour in and to, to run with them.

And so I think you’re encouraging them in the ways they’re going to run and things like that. And you want to, you want to be aware of who they are and um, and even cast vision. Um, like Josh talks about with those guys, um, but then you want to, you want to figure out like, okay, who, who has availability is faithful.

I always say like crew, uh, back in the day. So I look for fat disciples, uh, faithful, available, teachable.

[00:05:01] JimBo Stewart: not just fat like the guy that didn’t run the trail this morning But walked it but but faithful of it. I like that faithful available teachable.

[00:05:09] Brandon Moore: it’s an easy way to remember it, but it’s, like, when you’re thinking about a leader, a potential leader to develop and pour into, um, to equip or to resource and different ways, like that’s what you’re looking for.

It may, it’s probably not the fully developed, uh, person, um, but, but someone that you can begin to develop because in, in a lot of replants, like it. The church is where it is because a lot of the leaders left a long time ago. And so you’ve got a lot of people that are maybe like they have great hearts and they’re serving in a lot of ways, but, but that are not equipped leaders yet.

And so you’ve got to begin to identify how are you going to come alongside them in that work?

[00:05:49] JimBo Stewart: Yeah, so maybe a first goal is even just identifying who, like, so my goal maybe by this time next month, I will identify three people that I could potentially try to pour into and develop, right?

And then the next month, my goal is meet with each of those three and see what their willingness to enter into this with would be. And maybe the next month is put together a plan, get with my associational leader, state convention or somebody and how, what’s a, what’s a plan? What’s something we could do that I could really work.

How could I do this intentionally and set that up? And there’s a quarter right there. That’s one quarter of going. All right. In one month, we’re gonna identify the key objective is to identify the next month. Key objective is to meet with and see their availability. The next month is to establish and commit to a plan.

And there’s and then you build out from that quarterly. I think I think you just think through and again, this is hard for us to even get down to. We can’t tell you what goals you need to set. but just some suggestions of ways you can think about that. but also so leadership development obviously is a key piece of this.

I think you need to be, I think you have to be setting goals on leadership development. I believe shared leadership and leadership development. is one of the missing pieces in most struggling churches, if not all, and so some element of how am I developing and shepherding people well, has to be there.

can you think of anything else specific? So not just that front part, but the middle part, so they’re not the front part,

And Josh Ellis would say we’re not necessarily even trying to get the middle to be front charging. for some of the, that’s fine. It’s fine for them to be right there in the middle.

So what would be leadership goals for a pastor as he focuses on that middle group?

[00:07:32] Brandon Moore: So I think it starts with one, encouraging them where you’re seeing God’s grace in their lives and their potential, their, their giftings, those kinds of things. So you’ve got to know them well enough to be able to speak those kinds of words of encouragement in their lives. but then I think it involves inviting them into, uh, To collaborate on shared projects together.

because I think it’s, in that work as they see you do what you do in leading and, and working on a project that they’re going to learn from your example. I mean, so much in leadership development is better caught than taught. Right. And I mean, it’s just, you can talk leadership theory all day, but leadership development really doesn’t develop well until you’re hitting boots on the ground. And so, so I would say like inviting them into some sort of shared project with you, that they can get excited about, that they can contribute significantly to that. You’re not just getting a little bit of feedback from them, but you’re actually asking them to get involved with you in it.

[00:08:28] JimBo Stewart: Yeah, I think another one, I was just thinking about like Brian Croft even sets up, and this could be for the middle or the back or even that fourth group, Brian Croft’s whole thing where he talks about praying for every single member every month. Right. And if that’s, if that’s not a practice you currently have as a leader, maybe that’s your goal over the next quarter is to establish that as a practice.

And so here, just as obviously is practical wisdom we’re offering. So you can adjust this. But I think as you look at when it comes to leading people, there are, I think these six ingredients that Ellis brought, are, are six great places to look at. So what, you know, if you’re looking for a leadership goal for this quarter, then building trust, casting vision, equipping the saints, resourcing, encouraging, and serving are six really good places to look at, as well as leadership.

It’s a leadership development part of that. The other side of leadership, is kind of just the, directional clarity is what I call it. so what would be goals? What are ways that a guy could set some quarterly, annual goals in regard to directional clarity?

[00:09:39] Brandon Moore: Yeah, I think you’ve got to begin with, and probably say this in some of these other areas too, but you’ve got to begin with evaluation of like, what is unclear? Like, you know, just asking good questions to your people of, what do you think the vision of the church is the mission of the church? I mean, they may not even know what those terms are and that’s okay, but, but hearing what their answers are.

to at least what’s the mission of the church, right? And most Southern Baptist churches missions talked about enough here, what they’re saying with that. And is there any sort of alignment

on that?

and if not, just beginning to just like commit to asking a, certain number of people within your church, that question, and then reflect on it.

[00:10:18] JimBo Stewart: I’ve seen Bob Baumgarner in a consultation with a church leadership team, say like, all right, and he hands everybody a napkin and goes, all right, Everybody right. Either your vision or mission statement on the napkin. and Almost always, like, it’s, you know, everybody has a different version of what it is. And this is not about having a well crafted phrase that everybody memorizes, right? So why would this be an important goal? Why is this more than just a well crafted phrase that everybody might be able to write on a napkin?

[00:10:52] Brandon Moore: Yeah, I mean, because you’ve got to have an idea of like where you’re aiming, because if you don’t, I mean, whether they can repeat the exact phrase or not, like if they’re singing a different tune completely, then you’re going to have disunity in the body about where you’re aiming.

of programs, what kinds of things you need to be doing. Everyone’s going to have a different agenda. And that’s when like preference driven, you know, like I want to support my program and get budget for my program comes into play when, when they don’t see how, like how do all these things fit together in the whole.

Um, and so it, you know, If at least everyone’s on the same page of like, this is the big idea of what we’re going after together, whether they get those exact words right or not, to have that heartbeat in them that they can articulate to a certain extent, will, or if it’s not there, I mean, really reveals a lot about, the, the kind of momentum you’re going to be able to have, and some of the obstacles in your way.

[00:11:49] JimBo Stewart: Well, and ideally vision and mission speak directly into strategy, right? And so now we take the vision and mission, we agree on that, we have clarity on that, and then that informs what are our strategic actions or strategic objectives that we’re going after that then hopefully ideally really informs your goals.

And so if you’re not, here’s what I’d say, if you’re not at a place that your vision and mission clearly articulate your strategic objectives, which clearly inform your goals, then start, start there, make a goal over the next quarter, Put together a plan, at least put together a plan. Maybe, maybe, look, maybe the goal needs to be as small for this first quarter for you as identify who can help us Get clear on vision, mission and values and strategy, right?

Is that my association leader? Is that state convention? Is that somebody else that could help us get in a biblical way clear on that In a way that it informs our goals and and maybe just answering the who? is, is goal one for quarter one. And then goal two, you start executing that plan from there. If you already have vision, mission, and values, maybe goal one is evaluating that, and then goal two is adjusting where necessary and getting back to where it’s informing the goals and the strategies, because otherwise we end up creating goals that don’t go towards our vision.

Right? And I think this is where, when we talk about setting goals, it’s important to recognize, like, we’ve got to be setting goals that are helping us accomplish the vision of where we’re trying to go. alright,

[00:13:29] Brandon Moore: Well, and I think with that, with, with vision, and mission, with, with all these aspects of, um,

Strategic planning and it can feel business y and those kinds of things like the point once again like this is not gospel It’s it’s wisdom stuff that one.

I mean in a lot of in a lot of replants you’re going to have to say no to a lot of things. Uh, you’re gonna have a lot of people come with a lot of ideas. and one of the gifts of having agreed upon clarity when it comes to direction of the church is that you don’t have to be the bad guy always saying no, because it’s not about your preference at that point.

It’s rather it. This doesn’t fit in with where we’re going. This could be a good thing for you to do. but for our church to own it and do it and go after it, is not something that we’ve agreed we need to do together. so actually vision, mission and values are there to serve you as a leader, in a lot of ways.

not just, to have some fancy statements up on the wall.

[00:14:28] JimBo Stewart: Yeah, mean, I think about, Isaiah chapter 32 verse eight says, but he who is noble plans, noble things and on noble things, he stands.

we talked about this, the previous episode you’re on. I mean, planning is not. anti trusting the Holy Spirit. and so, if we’ve gotten too in the weeds, go back to that episode and you’ll dive deeper into that idea. But I think what we’re arguing for, though, is if you’re the place you’re going, I don’t know what goals to set, right?

So we’re saying, set one leadership goal a quarter, set one ecclesiology goal a quarter, set one missiology goal a quarter, and then two low hanging fruits. Out of the three, leadership, ecclesiology and missiology, one of those goals ought to be bigger. you know, relative to whatever that means to you.

like this is the harder goal. They don’t all need to be hard goals. I would pick for, for now, just do one big goal. The other two need to be medium. And then the low hanging fruit need to be really easy. Right? So in leadership, what are ways you could look in leading people to six ingredients in clarifying direction is another way to look on what your leadership goal can be each quarter.

Now, ecclesiology, What does it mean to set a goal for ecclesiology?

[00:15:37] Brandon Moore: Yeah, and this, I mean, this starts with having clarity about, What is a healthy church or actually some of the language we’ve started to use is what does a mature church look like because when You look at Ephesians chapter 4 and Colossians as well.

You see like Paul is aiming for a

[00:15:54] JimBo Stewart: church. Right. And not mature as in age.

Because there’s a lot of mature age churches. so when we say maturity, we mean spiritual

maturity. Yes.

[00:16:05] Brandon Moore: Yeah.

Yeah. And so I think we recorded an episode a while back that talked about just a basic framework for like, what is a biblically healthy or mature church look like? so you can go back and, and listen to that.

Get a framework. if you don’t already have one for what, what does church maturity look like? And then you’ve got to, but then you’ve got to like begin to measure that again, like I said, with leadership, you’ve got to start with measuring, evaluating, you’ve got to start with measuring, evaluating if you haven’t done that.

And measuring maturity, I think, starts with like, what we talked about in that, That previous podcast was Hey, as God’s people, we’ve been created with three identities. We’re worshipers, family, missionaries, those identities. as we, we think about maturity in those identities, what you’re measuring for is love.

All right. And so, love for God as worshipers, results in joy in the Lord. Uh, like that’s, that’s what a love for the Lord and daily life is going to be marked by is a joy in Him and abiding in Him, finding satisfaction in Him, those kind of things. A love, that’s manifesting in the life of the family of the church, family with one another, is going to be unity.

And I mean, Jesus says this is what we’re to be known by, right? Our love for one another, the oneness we have in him. And so we need to measure unity. and then, for missionaries identity, our love towards the world is manifest and measured by our compassion. And I’m not talking about just like a, uh, compassionate feeling, but a compassion that just like swells up and creates an urgency and an actual mobilization to make a difference in people’s lives.

Like

[00:17:39] JimBo Stewart: Jesus,

compassion inaction. right.

[00:17:40] Brandon Moore: Yeah. I mean, Jesus had a compassion that led him to weep, that led him to, burdened for Jerusalem. and it led, it’s what led him to action and to go to the cross. Right. and so, love marks those identities. We talk about the foundations of gospel scripture and prayer. it’s marked by humility primarily.

And we’ll get into the weeds of, how that humility plays out with each of those. but then with the structures of the church, you’ve got, leadership, membership, discipleship, and that’s marked by, the structures need to be marked by wisdom. Um, and so you need to be measuring, how that wisdom is playing out.

is the church, with each of those, it’s, is the church healthily self governing is the church as members, members. Self sustaining and and is finally is are you self replicating, and disciples but is also sending to make disciples elsewhere you’ve got a you got a step back and you’ve got to measure those marks in the life of your church The the maturity of your identities foundations and structures

[00:18:43] JimBo Stewart: Okay. So First goal, maybe we’ve got to evaluate so we’re going to bring you on for another episode so we can dive deeper into that I feel like we just keep we keep digging this I hope this is helpful. if this is helpful, let us know I believe it is so when we talk about ecclesiology, that’s that’s the direction we’re going towards is those categories is one We’ve got to evaluate those But then two we’ve got to You create goals that help us move toward maturity, in a directional, manner, not, not as a destination, but how are we, and that’s the beauty of there’s always, there’s always steps to take forward, right?

Because it’s always about direction. It’s not about arriving. and so evaluate and then go into those, each of those categories. And here’s what we’re saying. We’re not saying dive into every single aspect of that every quarter for this year. Like what’s your one overarching church maturity goal. for this year?

is it just that we would be a more compassionate people? Okay. Well, how do we get there? What does that look? How do you, what are things you can do to move the church in the right direction towards that?

[00:19:48] Brandon Moore: say like, as you measure maturity and you get a sense of what’s strong and what’s weak, what’s immature and what’s more mature, um, that’s when you begin to, you think How do you pursue maturity?

And I would just say like, like three basic things. one, it starts with the foundations because if the foundations are out of whack, I mean, those are the means for growing in maturity as worshipers, family missionaries. Like that’s the aim. You’re aiming to be like mature worshipers, family missionaries, but The way we get there is through being humble and relying upon the gospel scripture and prayer.

And so with that, pursuing maturity has to start with, and maybe this is where one of your goals lands. How are you going to deepen dependence in your personal life or in the life of the congregation? Um, and then as you deepen dependence and you begin to, you know, radically rely on the power in the presence of God and you experience transformation yourself, then you’ve got to prioritize people and prioritize their development as worshipers, family, and missionaries.

And so you’ve got to think through how, like, maybe it’s one of those categories, one of those identities that you’re going to prioritize developing in your people in the quarter or in the year, and you’re going to focus on, on that. and, Lastly, do you consider the structures and provide pathways?

Like I think that’s, yeah, it’s, it’s vital because I see guys over and over again, want to jump to the structures of the church constitution and bylaws, the name of the church, the policies and procedures, and I get those things can drive you crazy. and they can create, unfortunately, needless obstacles in your way, but they’re not the end goal.

and so you’ve got to resist the urge to start there. Um, because you only need good pathways and structures if people are developing, and experiencing transformation. and then those other things, as you begin to dive into logistics and pathways and structures, those would be much easier to move the needle on.

at that point, once you have a group of transformed people that have been transformed by a dependence on the gospel.

[00:21:52] JimBo Stewart: Yeah. Alright, so, leadership, ecclesiology, now missiology.

How do we set goals in missiology?

[00:22:02] Brandon Moore: Yeah, so again, it starts with, in essence, an evaluation piece. do you know your community?

like, you’ve got to get out there and exegete like you would exegete scripture, exegete the community and get to know them. and that means you need to be out in the community. Uh, you may need a goal for you getting out and about in the community, getting to know leaders in the community. it can be as simple as going and knocking on doors and just interviewing folks and, introducing yourself.

and that may be uncomfortable for you, but push yourself out of the like The comfort zone and just do some of those things just to get know people like like people typically Like if you’re just asking questions because you want to know and serve the community better, like people want to talk about their community.

Like, and so you’re not going to find a great deal of resistance to that. So get out there and make it happen. And, you can

involve

your

whole church in that process of getting to know them. Um, but then you got to consider from that, once you get to know your community, then you got to move it into action.

And that’s where maybe you have a goal. That’s like love them, serve them in some kind of way, share the gospel. and so. you may create all kinds of goals that flow from getting to know your community, but it’s got to start there. If you don’t know your community, you just start to like throw things against the wall.

You may offend

needlessly some people, or you may just be radically missing the reality of your community.

[00:23:24] JimBo Stewart: So it seems, alright, so a consistent theme I’m hearing from you in all of these is, if we’re kind of starting from, hey we’ve not been setting goals, we’ve just kind of been going about doing stuff, then step one is some level of evaluating and defining reality.

so

goal one in each area is going to be evaluating and defining reality, giving some sort of assessment.

Goal two is going to be clarifying direction. All right. So now that we know where we are, now we’ve got to clarify where we’re going. Goal three is now implementing what, you know, setting, setting strategy, setting goals, and implementing those goals. And honestly, if, if you’re, if this is new to you, that that’s your first year,

Done.

Right. I mean, quarter one, let’s evaluate and define and assess, and let’s define reality by assessing it. Quarter two, let’s clarify what it is we’re doing, what it is God’s called us to do, the direction that we’re headed. And then quarter three and four is we’re now setting those things into action. and now we get to move forward.

And what I would say is come back regularly.

[00:24:32] Brandon Moore: Yeah.

And don’t do any of that alone.

Like, like invite others into it. I mean, that’s gonna help you to develop leaders, but it’s also like when you get to the implementation stage, if you’ve done, if you’ve done all of that pre-work alone.

No one else is going to understand why you’re trying to implement what you’re trying to implement. And so you, you’ve got to like, build a team, even if it’s just a couple of people build a team.

[00:24:58] JimBo Stewart: This is good. Hey, will you close us in prayer?

[00:25:00] Brandon Moore: Yeah. Father, you’re so good and gracious, uh, God, we just are, grateful for the chance to, to be a part of your kingdom, to be a part of your, your work of bringing renewal to churches and into individual people, lives through the power of the gospel.

God, Lord, we pray for pastors out there that are seeking to begin to set goals that they would, you would just. Lord, fill them with your spirit that they would have wisdom to discern what are the right goals for them in their context, for their people, and ultimately for your glory. And I pray all this in Jesus name.

Amen.

[00:25:30] JimBo Stewart: Amen.