[00:00:00] JimBo Stewart: Here we are back at it again, back at the boot camp. Hope you’re ready for the next episode. Returning is Brandon Moore, Sir Brandon Moore, Dr. Brandon Moore, Spartan Race Brandon Moore, Church Replanter Brandon Moore. Brandon, so you, you have Completed your your residency in Colorado, and have finally actually moved to Knoxville and getting ready to just give us a little update for those that listened to the last episode that you were on of what’s going on in your replanting journey.

[00:00:33] Brandon Moore: Man, it’s good to be back. We have finally landed boots on the ground in Knoxville, Tennessee. It’s been a whirlwind of a year so far. I think we’ve hit like 20 States that we’ve stayed in at some point. Some of that because of a blizzard on our way to Colorado and a host of things our boys have experienced a lot for their ages, but We landed in Knoxville and finally just getting to settle in and begin building relationships in the community and gospel partnerships with other churches and just continuing to build our core team as we look ahead to 2025.

And so it’s been a really sweet season kind of crazy season, but just learned a ton from a lot of really godly. And those that have been doing this work for a long time out in Colorado and then spending some time with the salt network and just soaking up their, both their hope and their heart for the next generation.

So it’s been great,

[00:01:28] JimBo Stewart: That’s good. So real quick, just what was, what’s one major big highlight of something that you learned while you were in Colorado spending time with the Calvary family of churches?

[00:01:39] Brandon Moore: man. The, the list I have is long of things. And so trying to nail down just one is tough. I, I think I’ll mention like. couple that I just really valued. So one like Calvary talks shepherding so much and we, like, I think every, every good pastor is going to talk about the value of shepherding, but the way that Calvary like lives that out weekend and week out having a weekly shepherding meeting, like where they’re like, have such a good net for for catching people and ensuring that people don’t just drift off and, and following up.

And that’s the, like got to see the practical workings of that, but the, But the thing I think I loved most and got to experience was that every single one of their like pastors views themselves as like a shepherd first and foremost no matter like what their role is, like their role on staff, maybe logistics, it may be worship.

It may be a host of things that, you know, aren’t like. You know, counselor or, you know, that kind of thing. But they are devoted to, to shepherding and set that kind of culture. And so it’s a really it was just really powerful time just to get to see. That culture lived out.

[00:02:57] JimBo Stewart: That’s, I know so many of us listening would would, are jealous. We would love to go spend 10 weeks with the whole Calvary family of churches and and Halleck and D’Clew and Conrad and all those guys and just learned so I wanted to Highlight that. Here’s what I wanted to talk about today is setting goals as a pastor so here’s let me let me preface lay the groundwork of why I want to talk about this you know in ministry you have different seasons where you focus on different things in in my ministry for the last You Six months or so, there has been a real ramp up in focusing on coaching pastors.

And in that time that I’ve been coaching pastors, one of the things that we seem to really hone in on is setting goals and initiating action through that goal setting, adding some accountability to that, clarifying what goals they should be setting. And that seems to be what has maybe moved the needle more than anything else with some of these pastors that I’ve been coaching.

And you and I have had some good conversations about goal setting as something that you focus on. And then we’ve even had some conversations on specific types of goals that pastors should set. So I think the first question we have to ask and it’s a really good question to ask of anything, especially when you start talking about the pragmatic side of leadership, is is goal setting is that unspiritual?

I mean, is that, are we getting too pragmatic? Are we getting too leadership focused and, and man focused to say, hey, let’s set some goals, some quarterly goals with key objectives and is that too corporate? Is that too unspiritual? What are your thoughts? Mm

[00:04:35] Brandon Moore: Yeah, I definitely I grew up in a church culture where you know To be led by the spirit is to just be spontaneous in the moment And and so it it can in some ways because as you’re trying to like walk by the spirit moment by moment setting goals I know like it can feel like maybe that’s unspiritual.

But but like if you look at The Lord is a God of a plan, like from beginning to end. Like he planned our salvation from before the foundations of the earth. And so like. If, if that’s true of our God, then like planning and intentionality are are not unspiritual things. In fact, it’s, it’s some of the most spiritual work we can do as long as we’re depending upon the Lord in that, right?

Like, I mean, you certainly can sit down and try to be like setting goals and it’s all about like, what am I going to get done and how can I get it done? If it’s not like just soaked in prayer, then. Then it’s not going to be very spiritual for sure. There’s a way to do it. That’s very man centric, but but I certainly believe like our, our God and the spirit of God’s a God of planning and intentionality.

[00:05:46] JimBo Stewart: Yeah, there does seem to be this mentality that to be led by the Spirit is to be spontaneous and in the moment. But I think that’s maybe a cultural thing. I don’t think, I can’t think of anywhere in Scripture that it necessarily indicates that that’s always how the Spirit works. One of the ways that I saw this and when I was replanting is I would plan out my sermon calendar for a whole year in advance.

So October, November of each year, I would plan the whole sermon calendar for the next year, the text and everything. And I, I got pushback on, man, you’re not really allowing the Holy Spirit to speak into and which my pushback to that was always, I mean, the Holy Spirit actually knows what’s going to happen next year.

And and so I’m letting the Holy Spirit. be a part of the planning process. And Brandon, I can’t tell you how, how many times you know, some world event would happen, some local event would happen, something would happen within the body that we were, that it’s, that one of those types of events that you as a pastor start to go, maybe, maybe I should adjust what I’m preaching this Sunday.

And then you go look at the, the, the plan that you and the Holy Spirit put together. And you’re like, Oh, This actually is perfect. This hits exactly right where I’m supposed to be. Man, it’s so many times that, and it just confirmed for me that that the Lord can be in that I’ve seen in my own life that getting more disciplined.

And I, for me, it has to be a discipline. It’s not a joy. Goal planning and calendaring and these types of things are not a joy for me. They are a discipline, but I enjoy the fruit that comes out of it. I’m not, I’m not naturally a planner, but I’ve seen so much the benefit of taking ideas from my head and my heart and putting them into action with hands.

So I think there is a benefit to that, that, is not unspiritual, but also just to, you know, one of the passages people will bring up, especially when it comes to goal planning is in James where, you know, don’t, don’t say we’re going to the city tomorrow and we’re going to do this. And but if you keep reading in verse 15, it says, instead, instead of doing that, instead of this boastful planning is instead, you ought to say, if the Lord wills.

We will live and do this or do that. So there’s still this planning, but it’s this planning in submission to what the Lord may will. And as it is, it says, as it is, you boast in your own arrogance. All such boasting is evil. So the idea here is that scripture is not saying don’t plan. It’s saying don’t plan arrogantly.

Don’t plan in your own strength and in your own power. But I do think it’s, I think it’s spiritual to take and, and lay, and it needs to listen. If you’re doing goal planning and it’s not spiritual, then yes, it’s not spiritual, but you need to bring the Holy spirit into that process with you. Yeah,

[00:08:35] Brandon Moore: is foundational to all leadership, right? I mean, the Christian life in general, but all of leadership in particular. And I think, yeah, I mean that humility to say the Lord can change these plans because I don’t, I don’t know all that’s coming and I can my, my planning’s not going to be perfect, but, and I think that’s the idea of even behind like, like, You know, man plans his, you know his way, but like the, the Lord establishes his steps and so like it, Proverbs is of, it’s not denying that man should plan is like, should make plans there, but that the, The Lord’s the one that will ultimately, like, set the plan of how it’s gonna happen in the end, so,

[00:09:14] JimBo Stewart: yeah, Reagan Rose in his book, Redeeming Productivity says specifically speaking on that James passage and referencing that passage in Proverbs, he says, God honoring goal setting acknowledges that The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps as it says in Proverbs 16 9. It certainly doesn’t mean don’t plan.

It means don’t plan arrogantly. So all right, let’s talk about the benefits of goal setting one. I think like I have experienced It helps people who are not i’m naturally high in initiative, but i’m not naturally high in follow through And those are two different things, right? Like, and some people are high in initiative, but not follow through.

Some people are high in follow through, but not initiative. Some people are not high in either. And when you lack maybe a natural inclination towards those, I think goal setting with accountability and writing it down or typing it out, it moves ideas from your head and your heart. into your hands and into actual action.

That’s one of the benefits. I think another benefit is it helps us know what to say no to because we know what we’re focused on. What are some of the other benefits that you’ve seen for goal setting?

[00:10:26] Brandon Moore: Yeah, so, I, I mean, I think the, one of the biggest things I see in so many dying churches is a lack of, intentionality, you know, and in so many ways, in so many church situations, it’s not because they’re just like, there’s incredible sin in the camp. I mean, there’s, there’s certainly those situations we’ve, we’ve seen them, but many times it’s because there’s been a lack of intentionality.

We just keep doing the same things over and over again. Or we just keep doing whatever opportunity comes along. Like you’re talking about. We don’t know what to say no to, because we don’t have any. Like guiding things or principles or goals that we’re going after and so I think setting setting goals helps to build that intentionality In a church and helps to build initiative in a church that’s often just lost that momentum has become stagnant and so You’ve got to lead the way as the pastor setting personal goals because like you’ve got a model by example, first Peter five, right?

Shepherd sets an example for the flock. And, and so if you’re like you said, not high in initiative or high in follow through, then goal setting is going to help you to, you know, To cultivate that in yourself and to model that for people that maybe have been low on that as well. And I and I think that that kind of leads into my next thing of just another big benefit of goal setting is It’s an op, it gives you the opportunity to bring others along.

I’ve seen over and over, and I can be tempted of this myself, like as I’m praying and seeking the Lord about what he would have us to do, or where he would have me to lead the, the church. Like, I get excited about the vision he against lay on my heart and just wanna go after it. And you can, you know, pastors can make the mistake so often pulling away into their office. Crafting vision, crafting like what, what hill we’re going to take next. And then and then just going after that hill themselves. And And one of the biggest thing you’ve got to do and renewal work is bringing others along with you, get them to buy in to what you’re going after so that they, they come along and then they bring others along as well.

And, and so when you set a goal for a quarter or however long out, like you’re giving yourself bandwidth to first invite others into that goal, maybe even refine that. And then. Go after it as a team rather than just a one man show.

[00:12:48] JimBo Stewart: I love that and I think that’s such a key part is one is goal setting helps you not do this alone It helps you bring others into the process But the other person you need to bring in the process is there has to be for goal setting to be truly effective there has to be some level of accountability whether that is the people that are joining you in helping a reach that goal and, but at some point there has to be literally a moment where you are sitting down on a phone call or across the table with somebody or on a zoom call with somebody where you’re asking, how did we do?

Did we, did we accomplish the goal? Did we get there? Because if there’s not accountability, then what’s going to, it’s going to be like a new year’s resolution. Where you’re going to have this big idea, and you’re going to be all jazzed up about it, but because there’s not accountability on the other side of it, if you’re not naturally inclined towards follow through, then you’re just not going to follow through.

And, Then you’re not going to set another goal, and you’re just gonna quit doing it, and you’re gonna go back to the way that you were doing things, which means that you’re not managing what you’re doing it. The things are managing you. The task are now managing you instead. And so some form of accountability.

I think you can get that, like I said, both through the people who are joining you in the work, and then I would encourage me and get a coach. Get associational leader. Or a state convention leader or a pastor friend, a mentor you should have those in your life already anyway in my opinion. But if you don’t, this is a great way to, to try to add another one to your, to your deck of cards and, you, if maybe your associational leader is not equipped or doesn’t have the capacity, then ask him, who’s, who is somebody in our association that could help me accomplish this and meet with me once a quarter and help me think through my goals and give me some accountability

[00:14:38] Brandon Moore: Yeah, and I think like an important piece with, you know, finding a coach is you don’t have to be perfectly aligned with them. You know, theologically or ministry philosophy wise, like a coach isn’t a good coach is going to help you not, not direct you, but help you discover where the Lord’s leading you to take your next step and, and then hold you accountable, like you’re talking about.

And so sometimes it can actually be good to have a coach. It’s a little different than you, because they might bring different ideas and resources to the table that you’re just not aware of in the normal ministry circles you run in. But you can step into that relationship because they’re not meant to be a mentor.

That’s different than a coach. And so, you know, just get creative. If you think there’s no one to coach you, there really probably are guys out there. And you can, you know, can ask your state convention guy or your associational leader, like who would be someone that’s like gifted in this way could do that for you?

[00:15:32] JimBo Stewart: Alright, so let’s talk about what types of goals. One you know, time wise, I think quarterly is, is a good rhythm to set. I think you can have an annual goal, or even a five year goal, but then you’ve got to break that down into, if you’ve got a, let’s say you have a five year vision. right? That’s really a vision.

You have a five year vision, and then what you really need to do is break that down into what are the big things that need to happen each of those five years to accomplish that. And then you take the year that you’re in, and you break that down into four quarters. What are the what? What are the benchmarks we need to hit each quarter in order to be able to accomplish this goal for the year?

And then I would encourage you even take those quarterly goals and break those down into four. Key objectives. What are the four key objectives of that quarterly goal breaking it down into that level? Helps make helps put handles on it and make it something that you can really grab hold on And instead of it being huge bites every time the more you can break down big goals into small bites The more likely you are to stay on track and keep working towards that.

What are your thoughts on quarterly goals?

[00:16:41] Brandon Moore: Yeah. I mean, I think what you’re talking about is like, they’re, they’re more attainable. You can celebrate wins more. more easily. And if you’re going after an annual goal it can, know, sometimes that goal is so big that it just feels like you’re making no progress at certain points in the year.

And and so I think breaking it down into smaller bites helps one for your own encouragement. But also it can, it can really help get it much more like tangible and like, what do I need to do today? To move this forward. And so it gives you a window to to focus in

[00:17:15] JimBo Stewart: Yeah. Speaking of being encouraging and your own morale in this process, let’s, let’s move Brandon to what are the goals? What types of goals do you need to be setting? And I would say right off the bat, whatever goals you set you need to add a couple of just real easy wins. Like Low hanging fruit, you know, you can win at this and here’s why we know that man accomplishing hard things is hard.

That’s why we call it hard and so there’s got to be something that you can look at and go. Oh, okay. We did win We did we did win something we we accomplished something we were trying to do not only for your own morale because you may even hear that and go no i’m gonna grit through i’m dedicated But you’re trying to get buy in on with your team, with your congregation, for them to be excited about where we’re headed.

And so I think first off, I would encourage you, man, set every quarter one to two, just, I call them low hanging fruits or easy wins. What, what do you think about that? And then what other goals do you think we should be setting?

[00:18:14] Brandon Moore: Yeah, again, especially if you’re inviting others into some of these goals. You want to be able to you know, celebrate those publicly some of these goals we’re talking about will be personal and private for you as a leader and you’re not necessarily going to celebrate them publicly but but some of them will hopefully be something you can celebrate with the church and That helps build momentum for the church.

And so low hanging fruit would be key. I think of three areas though three big areas that I think pastors in particular and revitalization and replanting need to be setting goals in because these three areas. are often the areas that we need developed in personally when it comes to revitalization and replanting that seminary often doesn’t develop us in.

And that are just absolutely critical. for the renewal work in the life of the church. And so it’s leadership, ecclesiology and missy missy ology. And so a goal related to each of those you know, you can’t have a big goal in each of those areas necessarily. But but, but having goals in those areas throughout a quarter, throughout the year can be Yes, you like, you want to be improving your preaching. You want to like, you want to, you know, be a good counselor. Like you want to be those, like you want to be improving in those areas. Always. A lot of that though, is just the, the regular practice of doing those things. And we, we often get good training in those things.

But then we, we need development and particularly in revitalization. What’s often missing is clear leadership vision, mission and strategy, as well as what we’re talking about today, goal setting intentionality for the church developing of leaders, like that’s often missing in revitalization, ecclesiological goals.

Like, I mean, oftentimes. Struggling churches have lost a vision and clarity about like, what are we even aiming for when it comes to a healthy church? We talk a lot about healthy churches, but what do we mean by that? And, and then targeting, well, what’s an area of health we need to begin to cultivate as a church?

And then missiologically, I mean, we know that like most dying churches are dying in part because they’re the mission to make disciples has really suffered. And so like, I mean, this category can be anything from a goal of like building a relationship with a school leader, you know, to to just getting out and prayer walking in the community to, I mean, it can be like the preparatory work, or it could be that the work of like getting out there And sharing the gospel or disciple making of, of some sort.

So those are the three big categories I’m often thinking through.

[00:20:49] JimBo Stewart: When I think, like you said, you can’t do big goals in each of those, I, what I encourage, guys, is, so let’s look at these four categories, Leadership, Ecclesiological, Missiological, and Low Hanging Fruit. Low Hanging Fruit, we already know those are going to be small. Those can’t be big rocks. Those have to be small.

Out of the other three categories, Leadership, Ecclesiology, and Missiology, I think on those, one, pick one. what I call big heavy rock, right? And that’s it. That’s the only heavy rock you have this quarter. The other ones are going to be small to medium sized rocks. If you, if you add too many huge goals every quarter, you’re, you’re probably not going to get there and then you’re going to get discouraged and it’s going to be the opposite of the low hanging fruit.

With the low hanging fruit, we’re creating good morale and win because we’re getting easy wins, but if you only get like one or two easy wins and then you don’t accomplish any of your other goals, it ends up just being discouraging and you lose momentum. And again, obviously, in this whole process this has to be spirit led.

And you’ve got to be bringing other people into this process, praying through, asking God, God, what is it you, you want to see us work towards in leadership over the next quarter, over the next year? In, in, as a healthier church, as in our ecclesiology. And this is where I would encourage you to go back to the last episode we had Brandon on, where we talked about the, What is a healthy church target?

And what are some of those categories? And you’re thinking through those categories. How do we become a healthier church in one of those categories? And then missiological goals. What, how are we living out the mission that God has given us as missionaries, as ambassadors? Getting to know our, like, goals related to getting to know our community better or loving our community better, getting the gospel out there as we think through all of those things Brian, I’d love to have you come back on and let’s dive deeper into those three categories.

But I think for now. This is, let’s, you know, this is I think a good beginning conversation for guys who are thinking about setting goals and wanting to get better at initiative or follow through. You gotta, you gotta set clear goals. They need to be spirit led. You don’t need to do it alone. You need to have other people be a part of that process.

in both doing the work and in coaching you and holding you accountable. You need to make sure that they are clarifying what you are focusing on and what you’re not focusing on. Let them be part of what lets you know what to do and what not to do. And

[00:23:21] Brandon Moore: I think that’s part of being spirit led, right? Like, I mean, trusting the spirit in other people. And that, that they’re, they’re going to, to be listening to the Lord and that, that like part of you being able to listen to the Spirit is by listening to the Spirit at work in them. So I think oftentimes we just think being Spirit led can be like, get into my prayer closet, me and the Lord.

But I think it’s just as much being in community with other godly men and women. It’ll help you to sense what, what is the spirit leading us to do together?

[00:23:52] JimBo Stewart: Yeah. Hey, real quick. Would you just let us know how we can be praying for you and then pray for our listeners that God would give them wisdom as they set goals in their areas of leadership.

[00:24:05] Brandon Moore: Yeah, I think you know, just prayers for my family as we’re settling into Knoxville and then, you know, right along with this topic. I mean, that we would have clarity as to what to say. Like yes to and no to in Knoxville, cause there’ll be lots of opportunities, relationships, different kinds of things to be pursuing as we get connected in the, in the city.

And so just be praying be praying for that. That would be huge, but let’s pray. Father, Just so grateful for the opportunity to get to shepherd your people and for, for all the pastors that are, that are listening, God to this, that Lord, you’ve called us to be stewards of your people for your glory and the good of them, as well as those who don’t yet know you, God.

And I just pray that Lord, you’d be with each one of the men that are listening today ministry leaders that, that are, that are considering how it is that they can cultivate renewal in their context. God, I pray that you would. Lord, just cultivate initiative in each of us, Lord, and a, a, a willingness to embrace accountability, God, as we, we seek to set plans, not our plans but as we seek you and what you would have for us personally as leaders, as well as your church.

God, I pray that your that your spirit would go before us, that your spirit would provide clarity and help us to be intentional for the good of your bride, Lord. And for all of this in Jesus name, Amen.

[00:25:22] JimBo Stewart: Amen.